From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 09:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <28ab7673-c1da-4be9-a428-cd4bfded001a@default> References: <861rnybf34.fsf@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com> <87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de> <20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com> <87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com> <83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com> <83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org> <7979fef4-5df8-4997-95fd-c5be5887ab44@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="117035"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, tomasn@posteo.net, Jean Louis To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 18:42:29 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBVc-000ULD-JD for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Mon, 11 May 2020 16:41:15 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04BGcD97194694; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:41:15 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x69rc2y9-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 May 2020 16:41:15 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 04BGfB5t016880; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:41:11 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110131 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9618 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110130 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:180072 Archived-At: > So people are supposed to keep in their mind all this distinction when > it is a flag and when it is a mark?=20 Not necessary, really, I think. Pretty much every time "flag" is used it's accompanied by "deletion". (Extra emphasis, I imagine.) > So we are supposed to "flag" for > deletion, but "mark" for copy. Is it really necessary? Necessary? No. What's necessary, besides read, eval, print? Someone thought it was helpful. Probably someone who was worried about users accidentally deleting files. Maybe the same someone who implemented prompting for deletion confirmation. > Does it really need to be that complicated, Is it really complicated? As one user, I don't think so. But YMMV. > I mean, cognitively speaking? Does it > really add anything in quality if you distinct between "marking" and > "flagging" for deletion? Someone thought so. I agree with whoever that was. But I'm just one user, like you. > What is wrong to just simply "mark" files > with different "flags"? I don't think anyone said there's anything wrong with that. But in that case, there's also no reason to introduce two different terms - just "mark" with different "marks". > I am not native english speaker, but it feels I could equally "flag" > and "mark" my files for deletion. It's fine with me if everyone wants to remove mention of "flag" and "flagging". If you do that, please do it well, everywhere. Say explicitly which marks are involved for each action, unless an action applies to all marks. If you make such a change, it's not just a fix for this minor bug. You'll need to adjust text, menus, etc. everywhere, to be consistent. (IMHO, there's no need in that case to also change function and variable names. Ideally, yes, if use of "flag" is removed then Dired functions and vars with "flag" in their name should be renamed. Similarly, but with less importance, functions and vars with "mark" in their name should ideally be renamed if they affect only certain marks - to say that. But I wouldn't ask for any such renamings, personally.) My only position here has been to say what the Dired convention is and has always been. And to say that I think it should be respected consistently. Any inconsistencies are candidates for correction. The convention doesn't come from me. I'm just the messenger, reminding us about it. As a user who knows it, I've benefitted from it (when I see "flag" I know it's about deletion). But I won't argue that the convention can't be changed. If someone proposes to change the convention, e.g. to remove any mention of "flag", then please do that consistently. That's all.