From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "B. T. Raven" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: line-move-visual Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:42:56 -0500 Message-ID: <28KdnSiBiai-_IPRnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@sysmatrix.net> References: <089883ee-0a63-4cb4-a0ec-d2fe4e71cc03@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <87wruco5yq.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87wrubfd8p.fsf@rapttech.com.au> <848w6ndwn0.fsf@cs.bham.ac.uk> <87d3vx5cku.fsf@gmail.com> <87bpbcrdk5.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <4C17FE36.30102@thadlabs.com> <87r5k6sqg2.fsf@unm.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1291844786 13298 80.91.229.12 (8 Dec 2010 21:46:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 21:46:26 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 08 22:46:22 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PQRq9-00033D-NE for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 22:46:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42278 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PQRq9-0000U3-2W for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:46:21 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.sysmatrix.net!news.sysmatrix.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:42:42 -0500 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs In-Reply-To: X-No-Archive: yes Original-Lines: 78 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.73.133.30 Original-X-Trace: sv3-WzQolNSK4zat+u67PJBe9HWWxbozEgH98j8RpDKLVcXtJQm0De5PQkpPoomlm5hlKWsmFbyV7b3GwCn!Cp5q3mxCn7V/cWyxTMBF9RBJ4tDYpg+kSu+Bv1lcpskIq82l2XCuLT9XEAANJPrSb4Wzg8nTTJIC!Hy0FasjpHtsl6nrIpBcxmyX0ncr7/g== Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@sysmatrix.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:179131 comp.emacs:100098 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-Gmane-Expiry: 2010-12-22 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:76072 Archived-At: Uday S Reddy wrote: > On 6/16/2010 8:55 PM, Evans Winner wrote: >> ,------ Stefan Monnier wrote ------ > >> >> | Another way to look at it: if you have hand-health >> | problems, first try to unlearn to touch-type. >> >> I would be very interested if you were willing to expand on >> this. Do you mean to say that touch typing is unhealthy in >> general, or just more pragmatically that if it hurts when >> you do X, then don't do X? > > As somebody that does touch typing and have had heavy RSI problems, I > can throw some light on this. > > Touch typing is perfectly fine normal text, but it wasn't designed for > Emacs. The heavy use of the little finger for Control and Meta keys puts > undue load on it. Keyboards that had single Control or Meta keys > worsened the problem by making the hands stretch over long distances. Either Keytweak (w32) or xmodmap (Gnu-Linux) can swap all modifier (or most other) keys. An important consideration in the keyboard layout is that it be strictly bilaterally symetrical, so that modifier keys are used exactly the way shift keys are. E.g. Right-shift, a to make A, right-control, a to go to beginning of line, and the same for all other combos: right-control x left-control f to find-file. [On Dvorak layout]It may sound unworkable until you try it. Bottom row is (left to right) super, alt, ctl spacebar ctl, alt, super. Even more comfortable would be slpit spacebar with backspace on left half. Since the process of moving a tiny plastic dome down 1/4 inch doesn't require any vigorous motion (unlike for instance in playing the piano) it might even be useful to move the shift key between ctl and left-space-bar (backspace). This could be accomplished by stealing from space-bar real estate and moving it half a key to the right. This optimum (for me anyway) layout would be: Super[1] Alt[1] Ctl[1] Shift[1] Backspace[2] Space[2] Shift[1] Ctl[1] Alt[1] Super[1] (Numbers are widths in standard alpha keywidth units) Now all modifier keys are on the same row and the keyboard can be played instead of worked. Remember, the key justs sends a scancode; it doesn't have to move any heavy metal around. > > As part of my recovery from RSI, I had to retrain myself to avoid the > use of Control/Meta keys for long periods (for instance by using the > arrow keys or the mouse), and also to get away from the "home position" > when needed so that I can use other fingers for Control/Meta keys. But the RSI is caused either by a key layout inappropriate to the application or by grueling gruntwork like typing from hard-copy, data input, or dictaphone transcription. If a sane keyboard layout is a temptation to work too hard then we'll just have to add a subroutine to get out of the chair every 15 minutes to say prayers, thumb wrestle, or what have you. > > I am now perfectly fine for typing normal text, but I get sore tendons > when I have to do TeX/LaTeX. They make a heavy use of '\' which is > placed on lousy positions on most keyboards. Try putting |\ on the Caps Lock key. The dash-underscore is already in a good place for Emacs on the Dvorak layout. In my dream keyboard (vide supra) the open and close parentheses could be mapped to Right-Shift back-space and Left-Shift Space, respectively. Such a keyboard would cost about $5 to manufacture and would be worth $200 to me. Ed > > Cheers, > Uday > >