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From: "B. T. Raven" <nihil@nihilo.net>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: line-move-visual
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:42:56 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <28KdnSiBiai-_IPRnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@sysmatrix.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <hvcocr$jcd$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>

Uday S Reddy wrote:
> On 6/16/2010 8:55 PM, Evans Winner wrote:
>> ,------ Stefan Monnier wrote ------
> 
>>
>> |   Another way to look at it: if you have hand-health
>> |   problems, first try to unlearn to touch-type.
>>
>> I would be very interested if you were willing to expand on
>> this.  Do you mean to say that touch typing is unhealthy in
>> general, or just more pragmatically that if it hurts when
>> you do X, then don't do X?
> 
> As somebody that does touch typing and have had heavy RSI problems, I
> can throw some light on this.
> 
> Touch typing is perfectly fine normal text, but it wasn't designed for
> Emacs. The heavy use of the little finger for Control and Meta keys puts
> undue load on it.  Keyboards that had single Control or Meta keys
> worsened the problem by making the hands stretch over long distances.

Either Keytweak (w32) or xmodmap (Gnu-Linux) can swap all modifier (or
most other) keys. An important consideration in the keyboard layout is
that it be strictly bilaterally symetrical, so that modifier keys are
used exactly the way shift keys are. E.g. Right-shift, a to make A,
right-control, a to go to beginning of line, and the same for all other
combos: right-control x left-control f to find-file. [On Dvorak
layout]It may sound unworkable until you try it. Bottom row is (left to
right) super, alt, ctl spacebar ctl, alt, super. Even more comfortable
would be slpit spacebar with backspace on left half. Since the process
of moving a tiny plastic dome down 1/4 inch doesn't require any vigorous
motion (unlike for instance in playing the piano) it might even be
useful to move the shift key between ctl and left-space-bar (backspace).
This could be accomplished by stealing from space-bar real estate and
moving it half a key to the right. This optimum (for me anyway) layout
would be:

Super[1] Alt[1] Ctl[1] Shift[1] Backspace[2] Space[2] Shift[1] Ctl[1]
Alt[1] Super[1] (Numbers are widths in standard alpha keywidth units)

Now all modifier keys are on the same row and the keyboard can be played
instead of worked. Remember, the key justs sends a scancode; it doesn't
have to move any heavy metal around.

> 
> As part of my recovery from RSI, I had to retrain myself to avoid the
> use of Control/Meta keys for long periods (for instance by using the
> arrow keys or the mouse), and also to get away from the "home position"
> when needed so that I can use other fingers for Control/Meta keys.

But the RSI is caused either by a key layout inappropriate to the
application or by grueling gruntwork like typing from hard-copy, data
input, or dictaphone transcription. If a sane keyboard layout is a
temptation to work too hard then we'll just have to add a subroutine to
get out of the chair every 15 minutes to say prayers, thumb wrestle, or
what have you.


> 
> I am now perfectly fine for typing normal text, but I get sore tendons
> when I have to do TeX/LaTeX.  They make a heavy use of '\' which is
> placed on lousy positions on most keyboards.

Try putting |\ on the Caps Lock key. The dash-underscore is already in a
good place for Emacs on the Dvorak layout. In my dream keyboard (vide
supra) the open and close parentheses could be mapped to Right-Shift
back-space and Left-Shift Space, respectively. Such a keyboard would
cost about $5 to manufacture and would be worth $200 to me.

Ed



> 
> Cheers,
> Uday
> 
> 


  reply	other threads:[~2010-06-20 18:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 174+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006031053170.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
     [not found] ` <hu925r$1b$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
     [not found]   ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006031431510.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
2010-06-04  7:59     ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
     [not found]       ` <87pr07qjio.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de>
2010-06-04 11:24         ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-04 12:49           ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-09 19:51             ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-09 20:22               ` line-move-visual Brendan Halpin
2010-06-10  1:23               ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]         ` <hualdf$eln$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-04 13:00           ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-04 14:51             ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-04 20:53               ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-09 19:42               ` proposed keyboard-macro to record to elisp (was Re: line-move-visual) Joseph Brenner
2010-06-09 22:42                 ` LanX
     [not found]             ` <871vcmhq79.fsf@wivenhoe.ul.ie>
     [not found]               ` <hub2ss$is4$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-04 14:45                 ` line-move-visual Brendan Halpin
2010-06-04 17:49               ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-04 18:18                 ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 19:19                   ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
     [not found]                     ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006041829210.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
     [not found]                       ` <089883ee-0a63-4cb4-a0ec-d2fe4e71cc03@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
2010-06-06  9:53                         ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-06  9:39                           ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]                             ` <hug5rv$6d2$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-06 15:21                               ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-07  8:19                                 ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
     [not found]                                   ` <m2fx0z46wj.fsf@gmail.com>
2010-06-07 16:20                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-06 15:43                               ` line-move-visual Alain Ketterlin
     [not found]                                 ` <87wrucccl3.fsf_-_@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de>
2010-06-07  6:18                                   ` Wrong use of format=flowed antidote Uday S Reddy
2010-06-07 21:30                                 ` line-move-visual Joost Kremers
2010-06-06 18:17                               ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
     [not found]                                 ` <4C0C466E.3000803@thadlabs.com>
2010-06-07  2:53                                   ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-07  8:46                               ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-07 16:23                                 ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-09 20:23                                   ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-07  8:39                             ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-10 10:12                               ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-10 13:43                                 ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-10 15:17                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-10 19:53                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-10 15:44                                   ` line-move-visual despen
2010-06-10 22:02                                   ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-10 23:56                                     ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-10 22:48                                   ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
     [not found]                                     ` <slrni2ja96.6pq.nospam-abuse@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu>
2010-06-29 11:09                                       ` HOWTO: Cowtow to old farts Xah Lee
2010-06-10 16:57                                 ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-10 18:38                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-11 23:56                                     ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-12  0:17                                       ` line-move-visual Wojciech Meyer
2010-06-13 17:23                                         ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-13 20:56                                           ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-14  0:42                                             ` line-move-visual Jim Diamond
2010-06-14 10:49                                             ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-14 17:16                                               ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-14 17:34                                                 ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-15  9:26                                               ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-15 13:49                                                 ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                   ` <87sk4n3ocs.fsf@rapttech.com.au>
2010-06-16 14:43                                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                             ` <m2k4q18od5.fsf@softwarematters.org>
     [not found]                                               ` <jwvaaqxbcca.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>
2010-06-15  6:54                                                 ` line-move-visual Pascal J. Bourguignon
2010-06-15  8:42                                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-15  9:30                                                     ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-15  9:38                                                     ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-15 13:45                                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-15 13:57                                                       ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]                                                         ` <jwvbpbb6oyk.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>
2010-06-16 18:04                                                           ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]                                                       ` <hv8gvf$98o$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
     [not found]                                                         ` <hv8iog$313e$1@colin2.muc.de>
2010-06-15 19:37                                                           ` line-move-visual Leo
     [not found]                                                             ` <871vc8dpga.fsf@imladris.arda>
2010-06-16 12:37                                                               ` Emacs language Leo
2010-06-17  8:00                                                                 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-06-15 21:04                                                           ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-16 15:33                                                             ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-17  8:51                                                               ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-16 14:33                                                         ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                           ` <db13ae67-9d9a-4556-9a7c-8f86de63011f@b4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
2010-07-19 22:41                                                             ` minor mode on/off/toggle with t/nil question Stefan Monnier
2010-06-15 16:51                                                     ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-16 12:43                                                       ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-15 19:17                                                     ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-16 14:49                                                       ` espresso-mode (was: line-move-visual) Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                     ` <4C17FE36.30102@thadlabs.com>
2010-06-15 22:45                                                       ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-15 23:31                                                         ` line-move-visual Thad Floryan
2010-06-16  3:30                                                           ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
2010-06-16 16:14                                                             ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-16 23:23                                                           ` line-move-visual Chris F.A. Johnson
     [not found]                                                           ` <b1e84c4a-e74e-4ace-9b0f-a00b370eb61d@q39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
2010-06-16 23:45                                                             ` Keyboard Hardware's Influence on Keyboard Shortcut Design Xah Lee
2010-06-16 14:52                                                         ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                           ` <87r5k6sqg2.fsf@unm.edu>
2010-06-17  2:25                                                             ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-17  3:51                                                               ` line-move-visual Chris F.A. Johnson
2010-06-17  9:03                                                             ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-20 18:42                                                               ` B. T. Raven [this message]
2010-06-20 17:08                                                 ` line-move-visual B. T. Raven
2010-06-12  4:18                                       ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-12  4:37                                         ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
2010-06-12  8:30                                           ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-12  8:40                                             ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
2010-06-12  9:30                                             ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-12 12:30                                               ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-12 20:09                                           ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-13  1:41                                             ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-13 10:22                                               ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-13 10:51                                                 ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-13 11:32                                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-14  0:46                                                 ` line-move-visual Tim X
     [not found]                                                   ` <hv4nkd$quq$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-15  9:20                                                     ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-15 11:29                                                       ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-16  9:29                                                         ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-14  4:48                                                 ` line-move-visual Tim X
     [not found]                                                 ` <m2iq5nw4pj.fsf@gmail.com>
     [not found]                                                   ` <hv2htd$4li$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
     [not found]                                                     ` <m239wravxb.fsf@gmail.com>
2010-06-16  2:11                                                       ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-16  6:46                                                         ` line-move-visual Helmut Eller
2010-06-13 10:36                                             ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-16  2:19                                               ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
     [not found]                                         ` <huvsd5$8pm$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-12 12:25                                           ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-12 20:17                                             ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-10 19:57                                   ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-13 12:46                                     ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-09 21:38                             ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
     [not found]                               ` <slrni10ga0.t64.Jim.Diamond@jdiamond-nb.acadiau.ca>
2010-06-10 16:15                                 ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 17:52       ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 18:28         ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]           ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006041808540.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
     [not found]             ` <878w6truxc.fsf@lola.goethe.zz>
2010-06-06  2:25               ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
     [not found]               ` <87typc9dt8.fsf@kzsu.stanford.edu>
     [not found]                 ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006091815150.93771@hsinghsing.panda.com>
2010-06-10  7:12                   ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-04 21:16         ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-05  1:29           ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 13:20     ` line-move-visual sable
2009-07-09 18:12 line-move-visual Johan Myréen
2009-07-10  4:26 ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  4:43   ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10  5:48     ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  6:14       ` line-move-visual Kenichi Handa
2009-07-10  6:58         ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  8:13           ` line-move-visual Alfred M. Szmidt
2009-07-10 10:10             ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  8:43           ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10  8:57             ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10  9:04               ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 10:32                 ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  9:08               ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10  9:13               ` line-move-visual joakim
2009-07-10  9:22                 ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10 16:11                   ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 16:22                     ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 17:20                       ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 17:40                         ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10  9:52                 ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10 16:11                   ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 11:35               ` line-move-visual Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-10 13:38                 ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10 16:11                   ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 18:01                     ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10 18:16                       ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-11 19:34                   ` line-move-visual Juri Linkov
2009-07-10 13:56                 ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 15:07                   ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10 20:29                     ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 15:43               ` line-move-visual Alfred M. Szmidt
2009-07-10 15:56             ` line-move-visual Sean O'Rourke
2009-07-10  9:14           ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2009-07-10  9:56             ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10 10:22               ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10 16:11                 ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 10:36               ` line-move-visual Ulrich Mueller
2009-07-10 10:56                 ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10 11:07                   ` line-move-visual Christian Faulhammer
2009-07-10 11:29                   ` line-move-visual Ulrich Mueller
2009-07-10 18:15                     ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10 20:40     ` line-move-visual Richard Stallman
2009-07-11  1:58       ` line-move-visual Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-11  2:29         ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  2:44           ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-11 18:30             ` line-move-visual Richard Stallman
2009-07-10  6:12   ` line-move-visual Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-10 21:19     ` line-move-visual Johan Myréen
2009-07-10 22:14       ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-11  1:34       ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  2:46       ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-11  5:25         ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  5:49           ` line-move-visual Kenichi Handa
2009-07-11  6:13             ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  9:22           ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  4:35 ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10 13:31 ` line-move-visual Chong Yidong
2009-07-11  6:42 ` line-move-visual Andrey Paramonov
2009-07-11  7:21   ` line-move-visual Teemu Likonen

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