FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[William Case]

Hi;

I have tried to amend Pete Phillips' download script so that it works
for me but I have some Fears, Uncertainties and Doubts about whether I
got it right or not.  Here are my changes and notes:

#!/bin/bash

# script to automate pulling the latest org from Carsten's site
# PJP pete@smtl.co.uk
# $Revision: 1.1 $
# $Log: update-org.sh,v $
# Revision 1.1  2007/04/26 05:53:54  pete
# Initial revision

#####
# emacs 22.1 on Fedora 8
#####

# directory where the org directory is located
DIR=$HOME/Docs/Work/emacs
ORGDIR=$DIR/org
TMP=/tmp
TMPTAR=$TMP/org.tar.gz

# This is where I my copy of the emacs exicutable is kept/installed. 
EMACSBIN=/usr/bin/emacs

#####
#  The only place I have a lisp file 
# (/usr/share/emacs/22.1/lisp/textmodes/org.elc) is here.
# Do I need or want to create a lisp directory in my home directroy?
# If so, why? I don't have or want a CVS version if I have to climb a 
# steep CVS learning curve.  I am somewhat familiar with svn.
#####


# you should not need to edit anything else below here

# go to the tmp dir
cd $TMP

# make sure we have the emacs [lisp] dir
mkdir -p $DIR
######
# $DIR = $HOME/Docs/Work/emacs the way I have it set up.
# Is this all right?
#######

# get the tar file ... etc. etc.

Any suggestions, warnings or tips would be appreciated.

-- 
Regards Bill

Re: FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[Pete Phillips]

Hi William

try my updated version at:

http://www.philfam.co.uk/pete/GTD/org-mode/update-org.sh

Pete

Re: FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[William Case]

Hi;

You are not going to believe this; at least I don't believe it.

On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 18:56 +0000, Pete Phillips wrote:
> Hi William
> 
> try my updated version at:
> 
> http://www.philfam.co.uk/pete/GTD/org-mode/update-org.sh
> 

I tried it with the following adjustments:

#!/bin/bash

# script to automate pulling the latest org from Carsten's site
# PJP pete@smtl.co.uk
# $Revision: 1.2 $
# $Log: update-org.sh,v $
# Revision 1.2  2007/12/12 18:56:40  pete
# added changes due to change of location of the archive, and some other
# changes suggested by Harald Weis <hawei@free.fr>
#
# Revision 1.1  2007/04/26 05:53:54  pete
# Initial revision
#

# set up some variables
# EDIT THESE.!!!

# directory where the org directory is located
# Note that you must have write permission in the DIR 
# directory at a minimum.
 
DIR=/home/bill/emacs/lisp
### a newly created directory '/emacs/lisp' in order to stay as
### close to the script as possible.

ORGDIR=$DIR/org
TMP=/tmp
TMPTAR=$TMP/org.tar.gz

# This is where I keep my copy of CVS emacs. 
# EMACSBIN=/usr/local/emacs-cvs/bin/emacs

EMACSBIN=/usr/bin/emacs
#### This is where my emacs binary resides

#EMACSBIN=/usr/local/bin/emacs

# you should not need to edit anything else below here

The script downloaded things successfully and opened all?? files
in /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org with a link to org-5.17a

BUT ... the permissions on the newly created org and org-5.17a
directories and files where owner = billl and group = games.  'billl' is
a seldom used extra user account I have added to my system for
experimenting and playing around with things Linux.  I was most
definitely not in the 'billl' user account when I used the script.  I
have no idea how the 'games' group got into the mix.

I have tried using the script to install from both 'bill' (single 'l')
and 'root' with the same result.

Needless-to-say, org-mode ==> version still gives me 4.67.

I would just install from a tarball, but I am still uncertain exactly
which directory I want to copy to, unzip and make from.  The only 'org'
file I have is /usr/share/emacs/22.1/lisp/textmodes/org.elc

-- 
Regards Bill,
Emacs 22.1.1  Fedora 8_x64 

Re: [Bulk] Re: FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[William Case]

Hi -- typo correction;

On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 17:12 -0500, William Case wrote:

> 
> I have tried using the script to install from both 'bill' (single 'l')
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^
                                                             double 'l'
> and 'root' with the same result.



-- 
Regards Bill

Re: FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[Pete Phillips]

Hi Bill

>>>>> "William" == William Case <billlinux@rogers.com> writes:

    William> The script downloaded things successfully and opened all??
    William> files in /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org with a link to org-5.17a

    William> I would just install from a tarball, but I am still
    William> uncertain exactly which directory I want to copy to, unzip
    William> and make from.  The only 'org' file I have is
    William> /usr/share/emacs/22.1/lisp/textmodes/org.elc

I'm confused.

How can the script have worked and compiled but not left an org.elc in
/home/bill/emacs/lisp/org  ?

Can you tell me whether the compile worked ? has it left an org.elc in 
/home/bill/emacs/lisp/org  ?

Also, have you added a line to your .emacs along the lines of

	(add-to-list 'load-path "/home/bill/emacs/lisp/org/")

If not, that would explain why it is not loading up.

For the permissions stuff, I'm guessing here, but if you untarred it as
root, root will restore the files with the original permissions, not
yours. 

Try removing /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org-5.17a, and
/home/bill/emacs/lisp/org, and running as yourself, not root.

Pete

Re: FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[William Case]

Thanks Pete;

On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 23:13 +0000, Pete Phillips wrote: 
> Hi Bill
> 
> >>>>> "William" == William Case <billlinux@rogers.com> writes:
> 
>     William> The script downloaded things successfully and opened all??
>     William> files in /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org with a link to org-5.17a
> 
>     William> I would just install from a tarball, but I am still
>     William> uncertain exactly which directory I want to copy to, unzip
>     William> and make from.  The only 'org' file I have is
>     William> /usr/share/emacs/22.1/lisp/textmodes/org.elc
> 
> I'm confused.
> 
> How can the script have worked and compiled but not left an org.elc in
> /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org  ?
> 
> Can you tell me whether the compile worked ? has it left an org.elc in 
> /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org  ?
> 
Yes. /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org/org..elc exists.


> Also, have you added a line to your .emacs along the lines of
> 
> 	(add-to-list 'load-path "/home/bill/emacs/lisp/org/")
No.  But I do have 
(add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org$" . org-mode)) as was
recommended.  Org-4.67 worked with that line.

I replaced '(add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org$" . org-mode)) with
"(add-to-list 'load-path "/home/bill/emacs/lisp/org/")" and version
5.17a now opens.

> 
> If not, that would explain why it is not loading up.
> 
> For the permissions stuff, I'm guessing here, but if you untarred it as
> root, root will restore the files with the original permissions, not
> yours. 
> 
> Try removing /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org-5.17a, and
> /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org, and running as yourself, not root.
> 

I just did.  All the permissions are now correct.

I am going to have to really dig into this.  It is working as a result
of following "button-push" instructions (and I thank you for that), but
I really don't understand what is going on. 

No response needed; more of a note to myself.

-- 
Regards Bill

Re: FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[Adam Spiers]

On Tue, Jan 01, 2008 at 07:01:52PM -0500, William Case wrote:
> > Also, have you added a line to your .emacs along the lines of
> > 
> > 	(add-to-list 'load-path "/home/bill/emacs/lisp/org/")
> No.  But I do have 
> (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org$" . org-mode)) as was
> recommended.  Org-4.67 worked with that line.
> 
> I replaced '(add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org$" . org-mode)) with
> "(add-to-list 'load-path "/home/bill/emacs/lisp/org/")" and version
> 5.17a now opens.

You probably need both.  The addition to the `auto-mode-alist'
variable ensures that when you load any file ending in ".org", emacs
will automatically switch to org-mode.

Re: FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[Adam Spiers]

On Tue, Jan 01, 2008 at 05:12:23PM -0500, William Case wrote:
> You are not going to believe this; at least I don't believe it.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however
improbable, must be the truth." -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ;-)

> On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 18:56 +0000, Pete Phillips wrote:
> > Hi William
> > 
> > try my updated version at:
> > 
> > http://www.philfam.co.uk/pete/GTD/org-mode/update-org.sh
> 
> I tried it with the following adjustments:

[snipped]

> The script downloaded things successfully and opened all?? files
> in /home/bill/emacs/lisp/org with a link to org-5.17a
> 
> BUT ... the permissions on the newly created org and org-5.17a
> directories and files where owner = billl and group = games.  'billl' is
> a seldom used extra user account I have added to my system for
> experimenting and playing around with things Linux.  I was most
> definitely not in the 'billl' user account when I used the script.  I
> have no idea how the 'games' group got into the mix.

It's because tar tries to honour the uid/gid metadata when extracting,
but it's done numerically:

$ tar -ztv --numeric-owner -f ~/Desktop/org-5.17a.tar.gz | head
drwxr-xr-x 501/20            0 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/
-rw-r--r-- 501/20       103661 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/ChangeLog
-rw-r--r-- 501/20          617 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/dir
-rw-r--r-- 501/20         6450 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/Makefile
-rw-r--r-- 501/20       396954 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/org
-rwxr-xr-x 501/20        52980 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/org-export-latex.el
-rw-r--r-- 501/20        21775 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/org-install.el
-rw-r--r-- 501/20        38188 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/org-mouse.el
-rw-r--r-- 501/20        22162 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/org-publish.el
-rw-r--r-- 501/20      1045275 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/org.el

So the extracted files end up with uid 501 and gid 20.  On your system
this corresponds to 'billl' and 'games', which leads me to suspect
that you might be using some kind of Red Hat or derivative, since on
these distributions, uids for normal users start at 500, and 20 is the
games group by default (on SUSE and Debian, they start at 1000, and on
SUSE, games is 40, and on Debian it's 60).

> I have tried using the script to install from both 'bill' ([double] 'l')
> and 'root' with the same result.

Hmm, really?  Like I said, tar *tries* to honour uids/gids, but
if it's not root, it cannot change the uid, and it can only change the
gids to a group which the current user is a member of.  So I would
expect different uids depending on whether you extract as bill or
root, and probably different gids too.

> I would just install from a tarball, but I am still uncertain exactly
> which directory I want to copy to, unzip and make from.  The only 'org'
> file I have is /usr/share/emacs/22.1/lisp/textmodes/org.elc

It doesn't really matter where you install the compiled org.elc to, as
long as it's a directory which is earlier in the `load-path' you've
configured emacs to use than /usr/share/emacs/22.1/lisp/textmodes.  If
you look at the Makefile you'll see the default location that a `make
install' would place the org.elc at:

    # Where local software is found
    prefix=/usr/local

    # Where local lisp files go.
    lispdir = $(prefix)/share/emacs/site-lisp

Look at the emacs manual (C-h r m Lisp Libraries RET) for more
information if you aren't familiar with `load-path'.

> Regards Bill,
> Emacs 22.1.1  Fedora 8_x64 
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ah, look Watson, I was right! ;-)  I didn't see this when writing the
above, promise :-)

Re: FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[Bastien]

Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> writes:

> $ tar -ztv --numeric-owner -f ~/Desktop/org-5.17a.tar.gz | head
> drwxr-xr-x 501/20            0 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/
> -rw-r--r-- 501/20       103661 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/ChangeLog
> -rw-r--r-- 501/20          617 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/dir
> -rw-r--r-- 501/20         6450 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/Makefile
> -rw-r--r-- 501/20       396954 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/org
> -rwxr-xr-x 501/20        52980 2007-12-20 13:38:42 org-5.17a/org-export-latex.el
     ^  ^  ^

Of course org-export-latex.el should be 0644, not 0755. 

-- 
Bastien

Re: [Bulk] Re: FUD on my part re: downloading revisions?

[William Case]

Thanks Adam;
On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 23:26 +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
[Big snip]
> > Regards Bill,
> > Emacs 22.1.1  Fedora 8_x64 
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Ah, look Watson, I was right! ;-)  I didn't see this when writing the
> above, promise :-)

That's OK Adam. Learnt something new.  Explanations and education are
always welcome here.

-- 
Regards Bill