From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=FCdiger?= Sonderfeld Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 16:54:46 +0100 Message-ID: <2815659.zRQ0WWWeRr@descartes> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417794925 23363 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 15:55:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 15:55:25 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org, esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 05 16:55:18 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvDy-0005lm-7a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 16:55:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51133 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvDx-0002BH-TV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 10:55:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42285) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvDo-00025P-BT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 10:55:15 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvDg-00027h-KZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 10:55:08 -0500 Original-Received: from ptmx.org ([178.63.28.110]:56992) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvDg-00027V-DV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 10:55:00 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ptmx.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183012D8EB; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 16:54:58 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ptmx.org Original-Received: from ptmx.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ptmx.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nItg1MEQa6-X; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 16:54:56 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from descartes.localnet (chello080109100138.16.15.univie.teleweb.at [80.109.100.138]) by ptmx.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9C1F92C92C; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 16:54:55 +0100 (CET) User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-40-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 178.63.28.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178944 Archived-At: On Friday 05 December 2014 07:35:49 Eric S. Raymond wrote: > The positioning problem is that info/Texinfo makes us look like a > steam-powered archaic joke to younger developers. Text-only > presentation with obtrusive links and a complex command set for a > viewer that's *not a web browser*? In 2014? Really? texinfo does support images and in fact the info viewer in GNU Emacs su= pports=20 those images. But sadly this doesn't seem to be common knowledge and t= here=20 are even projects who use images in their texinfo documents disabling t= hem for=20 the info support and only enabling them for html/pdf export. E.g., I r= ecently=20 provided a patch to GNU Octave to change this but still there are cases= where=20 it shows a "no image" text instead. But I have to agree that info(1) is just confusing and weird. I only s= tarted=20 liking info pages after I started to use the GNU Emacs info reader. > I have discussed this with RMS and, pending my ability to actually wr= ite > proper translation tools, we have agreed on asciidoc as a new master > format. This is what should replace Texinfo and the gallimaufry of > ad-hoc text files like /etc/CONTRIBUTE and the admin/notes stuff. Why not use org-mode instead? It is part of GNU Emacs and it is very=20= flexible. E.g., /etc/CONTRIBUTE is actually written in outline-mode, w= hich is=20 the basis of org-mode. I think the long term plan was to replace the info viewer in GNU Emacs = with a=20 viewer based on eww that could read the HTML versions of texinfo files.= The=20 key point that is lacking though is the index. HTML (or PDF) have no i= ndex=20 support and an extension to support it would be required. Regards, R=C3=BCdiger