From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving kbd to subr.el Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 14:03:30 +0000 Message-ID: <27b660e5a86f32d5faeb@heytings.org> References: <20211004081724.6281.11798@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <874k9juy0r.fsf@gnus.org> <87mtnbtimj.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnmd13ny.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfx10xs6.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7dfpjn3.fsf@gnus.org> <31b2f1e94178d73e5f05@heytings.org> <87czo3pgs1.fsf@gnus.org> <31b2f1e9412d60db82df@heytings.org> <87o87moopl.fsf@gnus.org> <19fca5d18b63e6eff5de@heytings.org> <87wnmaiida.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgr6gw9s.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1chhhkh.fsf@gnus.org> <871r4hf83m.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8552"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 19 16:12:08 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mcpqa-0001yK-Ej for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 16:12:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46342 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mcpqZ-0003hq-Dj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:12:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33254) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mcpiU-0003R2-Hq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:03:46 -0400 Original-Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:58042) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mcpiH-0001sK-78 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:03:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1634652211; bh=X4MuNKOmIKhJbl4eGsTf0GjJ1U0YzvNbhq2ILATtekM=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=hMl5It+1DkPNL0LoAyf4L7U9Eh2Xwcgf7ACAASdp+125u08WkHvTDQYpJ5yS6M+kz D46gQ4EcHeT5mpJTfg3Kb4cydtvrVIZvaCOqGGE7QIZtbxUEa72B3nK9jCSTcQD4nZ j0yMRMgmB4UQ8gk4CRZTkffOxMAuya0rsIWf4McvnQMZXDNM9mctzv7+f5wVyomRmr o2OPAg44iP4jcn7/BLOzLMNlGCa/WT24r+Tk0uUp/dHgggJdPDAInW6I7yZ/9e4yZP quzKwMQ/dFYfcYFQYTkq3+0OxqW3f5OE94ZNJ2sDWZwQNSkKt2vifd0jlF95H3xl8K hsssvp2jEOvBw== In-Reply-To: <871r4hf83m.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.142.160.155; envelope-from=gregory@heytings.org; helo=heytings.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:277367 Archived-At: >> In the short term, no, but if you look at the 10-20 year horizon it >> seems quite doable. Whether we do manage to completely remove it or >> not doesn't matter very much for the benefit of Emacs users we should >> make it so the user and coder will never need to know about it, and for >> that we should actively discourage its use, starting by not supporting >> it where it doesn't have to be supported. > > Is it worth 20 years of pain? > Which pain? With my proposal and N=2, this is exactly what would happen, in a pretty much painless way. Unless there's something I misunderstood.