undo in org.el

undo in org.el

[Leo]

Dear all,

[a suggestion]

I seem to recall some time ago there were some discussions about undo
changes. for example, if I archive a subtree and then undo, the archived
substree will be restored to its original .org file but is also archived
in the _archive.org file. i.e. the undo is incomplete.

We can use the following to make the archive action one atomic change.

,----[ (info "(elisp)Atomic Changes") ]
|    If you need something more sophisticated, such as to make changes in
| various buffers constitute one atomic group, you must directly call
| lower-level functions that `atomic-change-group' uses.
`----

HTH,
-- 
.:  Leo  :.  [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ]  .:  [ GPG Key: 9283AA3F ]  :.

       Use the most powerful email client -- http://gnus.org/

Re: undo in org.el

[Carsten Dominik]

Dammit, if I only had know about this earlier!  I implemented  
multibuffer undo for the agenda, sort-of by hand.  This looks much  
easier, but on this other hand it will not work on XEmacs.

Sometimes I wander how many XEmacs users are out there, and if it is  
still worth supporting it....


- Carsten

On  12Nov2007, at 10:23 PM, Leo wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> [a suggestion]
>
> I seem to recall some time ago there were some discussions about undo
> changes. for example, if I archive a subtree and then undo, the  
> archived
> substree will be restored to its original .org file but is also  
> archived
> in the _archive.org file. i.e. the undo is incomplete.
>
> We can use the following to make the archive action one atomic change.
>
> ,----[ (info "(elisp)Atomic Changes") ]
> |    If you need something more sophisticated, such as to make  
> changes in
> | various buffers constitute one atomic group, you must directly call
> | lower-level functions that `atomic-change-group' uses.
> `----
>
> HTH,
> -- 
> .:  Leo  :.  [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ]  .:  [ GPG Key: 9283AA3F ]  :.
>
>        Use the most powerful email client -- http://gnus.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: undo in org.el

[Tim O'Callaghan]

On 13/11/2007, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
> Dammit, if I only had know about this earlier!  I implemented
> multibuffer undo for the agenda, sort-of by hand.  This looks much
> easier, but on this other hand it will not work on XEmacs.
>
> Sometimes I wander how many XEmacs users are out there, and if it is
> still worth supporting it....
>
>
> - Carsten
>

If that was a call to Xemacs users to identify themselves, then here
is one. Even though it is in the Emacs CVS tree now should not turn it
into an Emacs only tool IMHO.

Tim.

Re: undo in org.el

[Dr. Volker Zell]

>>>>> Carsten Dominik writes:

    > Dammit, if I only had know about this earlier!  I implemented
    > multibuffer undo for the agenda, sort-of by hand.  This looks much
    > easier, but on this other hand it will not work on XEmacs.

    > Sometimes I wander how many XEmacs users are out there, and if it is
    > still worth supporting it....

It is ...

    > - Carsten

Ciao
  Volker

Re: undo in org.el

[Stefan Kamphausen]

Hi,

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> Sometimes I wander how many XEmacs users are out there, and if it is
> still worth supporting it....

I definitely think it is.  (Although I'm currently giving Gnu Emacs
another try after years of XEmacs-induced productivity ;-)

Regards,
Stefan
-- 
Stefan Kamphausen --- http://www.skamphausen.de
a blessed +42 regexp of confusion (weapon in hand)
You hit. The format string crumbles and turns to dust.

Re: undo in org.el

[Ed Hirgelt]

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Tim O'Callaghan wrote:
>
> If that was a call to Xemacs users to identify themselves, then here
> is one. Even though it is in the Emacs CVS tree now should not turn it
> into an Emacs only tool IMHO.
>   
Another XEmacs user raising his hand -- please keep XEmacs compatibility.

Thanks,
Ed

-- 
Ed Hirgelt



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Re: undo in org.el

[Carsten Dominik]

On  13Nov2007, at 12:44 PM, Tim O'Callaghan wrote:

> On 13/11/2007, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
>> Dammit, if I only had know about this earlier!  I implemented
>> multibuffer undo for the agenda, sort-of by hand.  This looks much
>> easier, but on this other hand it will not work on XEmacs.
>>
>> Sometimes I wander how many XEmacs users are out there, and if it is
>> still worth supporting it....
>>
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>
> If that was a call to Xemacs users to identify themselves, then here
> is one. Even though it is in the Emacs CVS tree now should not turn it
> into an Emacs only tool IMHO.


Well, the fact that it is in Emacs CVS has not kept me from  
supporting XEmacs for quite a while now.  But it is extra work and  
requires catering for missing features and different implementations  
- so it is important for me to know that this is used and still  
appreciated.

How about someone stepping forward and trying to release an XEmacs  
package containing noutline.el and org-mode?  Anyone who feels up to  
this?  Because I will not have the time.

- Carsten

Re: undo in org.el

[Leo]

On 2007-11-13 15:37 +0000, Carsten Dominik wrote:
[...]
>> If that was a call to Xemacs users to identify themselves, then here
>> is one. Even though it is in the Emacs CVS tree now should not turn it
>> into an Emacs only tool IMHO.
>
> Well, the fact that it is in Emacs CVS has not kept me from supporting
> XEmacs for quite a while now.  But it is extra work and requires
> catering for missing features and different implementations - so it is
> important for me to know that this is used and still appreciated.
>
> How about someone stepping forward and trying to release an XEmacs
> package containing noutline.el and org-mode?  Anyone who feels up to
> this?  Because I will not have the time.
>
> - Carsten

I think org 5.13 (or maybe 5.14) can be used by XEmacs users for
foreseeable feature. Remember XEmacs is packaging quite a few outdated
package anyway such as AUCTeX (11.5x).

If no one steps up for this task, we should start thinking of moving
forward anyway.

HTH,
-- 
.:  Leo  :.  [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ]  .:  [ GPG Key: 9283AA3F ]  :.

          Use the best OS -- http://www.fedoraproject.org/

Re: Re: undo in org.el

[Carsten Dominik]

On  13Nov2007, at 9:58 PM, Leo wrote:

> On 2007-11-13 15:37 +0000, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> [...]
>>> If that was a call to Xemacs users to identify themselves, then here
>>> is one. Even though it is in the Emacs CVS tree now should not  
>>> turn it
>>> into an Emacs only tool IMHO.
>>
>> Well, the fact that it is in Emacs CVS has not kept me from  
>> supporting
>> XEmacs for quite a while now.  But it is extra work and requires
>> catering for missing features and different implementations - so  
>> it is
>> important for me to know that this is used and still appreciated.
>>
>> How about someone stepping forward and trying to release an XEmacs
>> package containing noutline.el and org-mode?  Anyone who feels up to
>> this?  Because I will not have the time.
>>
>> - Carsten
>
> I think org 5.13 (or maybe 5.14) can be used by XEmacs users for
> foreseeable feature. Remember XEmacs is packaging quite a few outdated
> package anyway such as AUCTeX (11.5x).
>
> If no one steps up for this task, we should start thinking of moving
> forward anyway.

I am not sure what you mean by "moving forward".  Sure, the world can  
survive withoout an XEmacs package for Org-mode.

However, even if the package would not be up-to-date, it would be  
nice if XEmacs users would get some version simply with the sumo  
tarball.  Would lower the the entry borders quite a bit in my  
opinion.  Lets not forget that not everyone is as happy to download a  
new version of a package frequently as we are here...

Anyway, just a thought.  I will continue to support XEmacs as much as  
I can, within the limits of available time.  But that support already  
has some holes, most importantly columns view does not work with it  
and the difficulties to make it work are so substantial that I am not  
expecting to ever get around to it.

We should all thank Gregory Chernov again for porting noutline to  
XEmacs - without that I would have given up long ago.

- Carsten

Re: undo in org.el

[Wes Nakamura]

| On 13/11/2007, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
| > Dammit, if I only had know about this earlier!  I implemented
| > multibuffer undo for the agenda, sort-of by hand.  This looks much
| > easier, but on this other hand it will not work on XEmacs.
| >
| > Sometimes I wander how many XEmacs users are out there, and if it is
| > still worth supporting it....
| >
| >
| > - Carsten
| >

Another XEmacs user here.  On XEmacs I like being able to have a
default variable width font in the org-mode buffer but still have the
calendar, etc, come up in a monospace font in a different buffer in the
same frame.  I haven't been able to do this in Emacs since I believe
fonts are not buffer local but applied to a frame. 

Wes

Re: undo in org.el

[Carsten Dominik]

On  14Nov2007, at 12:17 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote:

>
> On  13Nov2007, at 11:50 PM, Wes Nakamura wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> | On 13/11/2007, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
>> | > Dammit, if I only had know about this earlier!  I implemented
>> | > multibuffer undo for the agenda, sort-of by hand.  This looks  
>> much
>> | > easier, but on this other hand it will not work on XEmacs.
>> | >
>> | > Sometimes I wander how many XEmacs users are out there, and if  
>> it is
>> | > still worth supporting it....
>> | >
>> | >
>> | > - Carsten
>> | >
>>
>> Another XEmacs user here.  On XEmacs I like being able to have a
>> default variable width font in the org-mode buffer but still have the
>> calendar, etc, come up in a monospace font in a different buffer  
>> in the
>> same frame.  I haven't been able to do this in Emacs since I believe
>> fonts are not buffer local but applied to a frame.
>
>
> Yes, XEmacs has many great features.  I did use it for many years  
> as my main Emacs.
>
> - Carsten

Re: undo in org.el

[Tassilo Horn]

Wes Nakamura <wknaka@pobox.com> writes:

Hi Wes,

> On XEmacs I like being able to have a default variable width font in
> the org-mode buffer but still have the calendar, etc, come up in a
> monospace font in a different buffer in the same frame.  I haven't
> been able to do this in Emacs since I believe fonts are not buffer
> local but applied to a frame.

That's wrong.  You can mix as many proportional and variable width faces
in one buffer as you whish.  For example you could use big variable
width fonts for org headlines and small proportional fonts for the
normal content.

Simply set point on the face you want to change and hit `M-x
customize-face RET'.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: undo in org.el

[Carsten Dominik]

On  13Nov2007, at 11:50 PM, Wes Nakamura wrote:

>
>
> | On 13/11/2007, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
> | > Dammit, if I only had know about this earlier!  I implemented
> | > multibuffer undo for the agenda, sort-of by hand.  This looks much
> | > easier, but on this other hand it will not work on XEmacs.
> | >
> | > Sometimes I wander how many XEmacs users are out there, and if  
> it is
> | > still worth supporting it....
> | >
> | >
> | > - Carsten
> | >
>
> Another XEmacs user here.  On XEmacs I like being able to have a
> default variable width font in the org-mode buffer but still have the
> calendar, etc, come up in a monospace font in a different buffer in  
> the
> same frame.  I haven't been able to do this in Emacs since I believe
> fonts are not buffer local but applied to a frame.

I am not sure about this, but yes, XEmacs has many great features,  
like specifyiers.  I did use it for many years as my main Emacs.

- Carsten

Re: Re: undo in org.el

[William Henney]

Hi Tassilo

On 11/14/07, Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> wrote:
> Wes Nakamura <wknaka@pobox.com> writes:
>
> Hi Wes,
>
> > On XEmacs I like being able to have a default variable width font in
> > the org-mode buffer but still have the calendar, etc, come up in a
> > monospace font in a different buffer in the same frame.  I haven't
> > been able to do this in Emacs since I believe fonts are not buffer
> > local but applied to a frame.
>
> That's wrong.  You can mix as many proportional and variable width faces
> in one buffer as you whish.  For example you could use big variable
> width fonts for org headlines and small proportional fonts for the
> normal content.
>
> Simply set point on the face you want to change and hit `M-x
> customize-face RET'.
>

No. I think you are missing Wes' point. Of course you can set
different fonts for different faces, but that does not help with the
particular issue that Wes mentions. The calendar uses the default
face, as does org-mode for "normal" text. Therefore, you can't change
one without screwing up the other. If XEmacs allows the font
associated with a particular face to be buffer-local, then that is a
big improvement.

A work-around for GNU Emacs would be for org to use define an
"org-default" face that inherits from "default" but can be changed
independently. Is this feasible, Carsten? I would appreciate that
feature too.

The main reason I don't use XEmacs any more is that there is no
version for OS X that is as nice as Aquamacs...

Cheers

Will (XEmacs user 1993-2005, GNU Emacs user 1990-1993, 2005-present)

-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia

Re: undo in org.el

[Tassilo Horn]

"William Henney" <whenney@gmail.com> writes:

Hi William,

>> > On XEmacs I like being able to have a default variable width font
>> > in the org-mode buffer but still have the calendar, etc, come up in
>> > a monospace font in a different buffer in the same frame.  I
>> > haven't been able to do this in Emacs since I believe fonts are not
>> > buffer local but applied to a frame.
>>
>> That's wrong.  You can mix as many proportional and variable width
>> faces in one buffer as you whish.  For example you could use big
>> variable width fonts for org headlines and small proportional fonts
>> for the normal content.
>>
>> Simply set point on the face you want to change and hit `M-x
>> customize-face RET'.
>
> No. I think you are missing Wes' point. Of course you can set
> different fonts for different faces, but that does not help with the
> particular issue that Wes mentions. The calendar uses the default
> face, as does org-mode for "normal" text. Therefore, you can't change
> one without screwing up the other. If XEmacs allows the font
> associated with a particular face to be buffer-local, then that is a
> big improvement.

And how does XEmacs know what face a new buffer should use?  By its
major mode?

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: Re: undo in org.el

[William Henney]

On 11/14/07, Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> wrote:
> "William Henney" <whenney@gmail.com> writes:
> > If XEmacs allows the font
> > associated with a particular face to be buffer-local, then that is a
> > big improvement.
>
> And how does XEmacs know what face a new buffer should use?  By its
> major mode?
>

I really have no idea, but I'm guessing it works the same as any other
buffer-local variable. That is, there is a global default value that
is used for any buffer that has not explicitly set the variable
locally.

Cheers

Will

-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia

Re: undo in org.el

[Dr. Volker Zell]

>>>>> Carsten Dominik writes:

    > On  13Nov2007, at 12:44 PM, Tim O'Callaghan wrote:

    >> On 13/11/2007, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
    >>> Dammit, if I only had know about this earlier!  I implemented
    >>> multibuffer undo for the agenda, sort-of by hand.  This looks much
    >>> easier, but on this other hand it will not work on XEmacs.
    >>> 
    >>> Sometimes I wander how many XEmacs users are out there, and if it is
    >>> still worth supporting it....
    >>> 
    >>> 
    >>> - Carsten
    >>> 
    >> 
    >> If that was a call to Xemacs users to identify themselves, then here
    >> is one. Even though it is in the Emacs CVS tree now should not turn it
    >> into an Emacs only tool IMHO.


    > Well, the fact that it is in Emacs CVS has not kept me from
    > supporting XEmacs for quite a while now.  But it is extra work and
    > requires catering for missing features and different implementations
    > - so it is important for me to know that this is used and still
    > appreciated.

    > How about someone stepping forward and trying to release an XEmacs
    > package containing noutline.el and org-mode?  Anyone who feels up to
    > this?  Because I will not have the time.

I'm already maintaing XEmacs for cygwin. I will give it a try and ask on
the XEmacs list how to proceed. At least I will release an org-mode
package with the xemacs-sumo on cygwin.

    > - Carsten

Ciao
  Volker

Re: undo in org.el

[Carsten Dominik]

On  15Nov2007, at 12:45 PM, Dr. Volker Zell wrote:

>
>> How about someone stepping forward and trying to release an XEmacs
>> package containing noutline.el and org-mode?  Anyone who feels up to
>> this?  Because I will not have the time.
>
> I'm already maintaing XEmacs for cygwin. I will give it a try and  
> ask on
> the XEmacs list how to proceed. At least I will release an org-mode
> package with the xemacs-sumo on cygwin.

Hi Volker, that would be great.  I guess that things should be pretty  
much straight forward.  The only stumbling point might be  
noutline.el, and the question if it will lead to conflicts with  
normal outline.  Should be compatible, but who knows.

Thanks!

- Carsten