From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] scratch/widen-less a4ba846: Replace prog-widen with consolidating widen calls Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:09:00 +0000 Message-ID: <27985594-3bb4-ce88-8928-2ccfeac13eae@yandex.ru> References: <20171129233237.27462.23351@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20171129233238.504B5204F1@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <5d668ce5-1482-a3d4-c01b-7d996a532567@yandex.ru> <20171130214621.GA22157@ACM> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1512155986 5666 195.159.176.226 (1 Dec 2017 19:19:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:19:46 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:57.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/57.0 Cc: Tom Tromey , Stefan Monnier , Vitalie Spinu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 01 20:19:41 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eKqqW-0000wJ-Vg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 20:19:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60032 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKqqe-0004UJ-7K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:19:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34867) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKox7-0008Ui-Bs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:18:21 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKox4-0006l5-Mk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:18:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]:33069) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eKox4-0006kV-Fu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:18:14 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id g130so6397996wme.0 for ; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:18:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YvFaOH1e5sICchwMwdLwUiFt8BCITemiRmMNye5aVpI=; b=rrgNKt23HpeICRSspqZHVCxe2VmBL7zD4RDSM5DQGJkNX5u2Ij4hssowgT5f7XAiTW L9H8TRdmjDNOfLv/CHudLIzUP7oOxi7NFV4BTIdI0qNXSFKtfhta7zEwAro32xMpMgrF cgxuZZ6wPik5xaWwkul5x6xgYjxvDEHZl7NgIWkSoSpZzGaWkxlmGbLfAkIajgYpGptg bY4kysHP7Y21PP69s2JuR5nOUYifs89kRbmtENOq0GOfgFgmaOa1k6i3Fk0nuTDc+ohj n1GqwYamt5zvOVTtZPrs5lBFjApSFSLYWPfHG1tK6bmiPV6B/Bs/E+tffsR+swIoQbHt qRGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=YvFaOH1e5sICchwMwdLwUiFt8BCITemiRmMNye5aVpI=; b=V79W8Y6nzN/zlgPdIxGsDMkXAaSvTTstq4Fct0sa9qlAF1zIxemZgSfilaMvCNJMLf EBxs8ZHSsU5D+kiXJp5UBdujWU+iv4CM+O8Gcv895/2Fi58cgQTjN3aK78CaGOA6F0Ve LMVLnoiJ2ArhvS8GbbH/WWdQbnXw78R8doiz9eMzv2PdMmaWdOjtD1y3EdDL14NY3K1L j/K/S9g5X2AEBlE4TD+4nw59pbkqOxIOELynDY+XC2jTxB1LsI23HkiujGVlHC6QyBg4 isfrS6NpDoDMF2AF2wLN13eMVfWbW0XEEGYSxjhiOk2KrEBilrAnVbCm2pyAqjdbgsEz lJww== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6DDnUKfDa/dD9yVOtEMNqyBsVPHsvvC8AD7N8+1FWpmxgk+ngB M7CBLebjwMIf035p/UysToq3oZzh X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMY7qmgDRf25w1mu372aTc2Sutg5KVk+DkoPWBBiWEOC4MOpRuKEIXLpxDLWQnzBGEVLtabs8A== X-Received: by 10.28.129.77 with SMTP id c74mr1806428wmd.124.1512083342358; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:09:02 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.38] (89-160-235-67.du.xdsl.is. [89.160.235.67]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id j10sm5145610wrh.32.2017.11.30.15.09.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:09:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171130214621.GA22157@ACM> Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:220577 Archived-At: Hi Alan, On 11/30/17 9:46 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Using narrowing for marking the bounds of a sub-mode is a bad thing, > since it is likely to cause contention with other uses of narrowing. Please give an example. > It's not clear what is meant here, To rephrase, don't widen in indent-line-function or beginning-of-defun-function. > but mandating maintainers of major > modes to use narrowing in a particular way is at best controversial, and > probably will render many major modes non-functional. I don't see a reason why. Even more, it should be compatible with all uses of narrowing that I know about. > Narrowing belongs to users and major modes. It can serve all. > I am lacking the context of > your post, which appears to start deep down in some mail thread which I > don't have, so I can't follow the details of your proposal. But I would > appreciate you confirming that these proposals won't place any > constraints whatsoever on how users and major modes can use narrowing. Please see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-11/msg00691.html and http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-12/msg00796.html. > You can also understand me being a bit concerned at the reference to CC > Mode. ;-) You shouldn't be: CC Mode can just ignore this new rule, as long as it's too hard to support embedding it in multi-mode buffers. >> - Multi-mode packages have been using narrowing for this purpose for >> years, so they won't have to change much. > > They have used narrowing because that is the only tool they have had. The only other tool we have is also narrowing, semantically.