From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: xah lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#2473: usability issues on emacs's describe-mode Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:12:00 -0800 Message-ID: <26F1345E-58EE-4C6A-B1DA-C72B7FC42FFC@xahlee.org> References: Reply-To: xah lee , 2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1235815368 16291 80.91.229.12 (28 Feb 2009 10:02:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:02:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, 2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 28 11:04:04 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LdM32-0005Vd-Qj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41531 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LdM1i-0001rd-0t for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:02:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LdLQ8-0002JO-7s for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:23:44 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LdLQ5-0002IN-5W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:23:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45373 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LdLQ5-0002IK-0v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:23:41 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:44500) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LdLQ4-0003hM-Hj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:23:40 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1S9Nc0x010740; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:23:38 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n1S9F3pl007636; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:15:03 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: xah lee Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:15:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 2473 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 2473-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B2473.12358123747312 (code B ref 2473); Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:15:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 2473) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Feb 2009 09:12:54 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1S9Coa7007306 for <2473@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:12:51 -0800 Original-Received: from [192.168.1.4] (c-24-6-175-142.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.175.142]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKp8S-1LdLFK1ZVW-000Nov; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:12:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19VPaUEe8qp9BLEB9cvxYRHz7z3JioQQAkE9sT RXNJsZ4KlxzlJogWPKG9uFYhTtqIDY6ZFy61aYdky9SufoNU8v O7sbgGr6fCjoN7Yvpn2gA== X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:23:43 -0500 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:01:39 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:25829 Archived-At: For me, so far i personally prefer the solution where Ctrl+h m would =20 just show the major mode's inline doc. I think that pretty much fixed it, very simple solution. Showing the inline doc of major mode is a frequent operation. Perhaps =20= daily, or few times per week. Showing the inline doc of ALL minor =20 modes, is probably not used much. (personally, i can't think i needed =20= it in 10 years) For people who want to display inline doc of all minor modes at once, =20= the describe-mode can work as it is. As for the ^L char, I think Drew Adam's code works well. So, overall, for the above, the following simple code does the job. (defun describe-major-mode () "Show inline doc for current major-mode." ;; code by Kevin Rodgers. 2009-02-25 (interactive) (describe-function major-mode)) (global-set-key (kbd "C-h m") 'describe-major-mode) (require 'pp-c-l) (pretty-control-l-mode 1) ----------- For the hide/show solution, i think it's too complex. Complex in UI, =20 complex in implementation too. For me, if i wanted to discribe them =20 all, i rather prefer they all show, and not having to click each to =20 expand, or click on some Expand All button. Thanks for all the suggestions. Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84 ------------------- On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:34 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > I see a 3rd way: make the buffer present an expandable list of =20 > modes, > starting with just 2 items: the current major modes and "minor =20 > modes", > e.g. similar to what we do in Speedbar, or maybe in Outline Mode > (under "Hide Sublevels"). In ASCII art: > + Major Mode: RMAIL Mode > + Minor Modes > Using hiding is a good idea -- thanks. > I think that partcular way would be inconvenient. Specifically, it > would be a hassle to initially hide the major mode documentation. > That is what users most often want to see; making them type a command > to expose it would be a gratuitous hassle. > So I suggest putting the partly-hidden minor mode list first, > followed by the totally visible major mode documentation. I don't think the difference with what we have now is worth the trouble. Basically, it's just a question of shortening the "list of minor modes" at the beginning of the buffer (e.g. by removing global minor modes from that list). Stefan =E2=98=84