From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Efforts to attract more users? Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:56:01 -0700 Message-ID: <26BBD8D85E94428A8D797C9E933E9952@us.oracle.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278608269 19915 80.91.229.12 (8 Jul 2010 16:57:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:57:49 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Ken Hori'" , "'Emacs Dev [emacs-devel]'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 08 18:57:48 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWuPx-0008N4-C3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 18:57:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60552 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OWuPw-0006Xm-Lh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:57:44 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47321 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OWuPq-0006Wq-Gi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:57:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWuPp-0007fF-3X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:57:38 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:20117) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWuPo-0007ew-U9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:57:37 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o68GvUMP016888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:57:32 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o68FArwi008262; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:57:30 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt006.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 389872281278608159; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:55:59 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:55:58 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcseXtwuk3xbBmDWThqbNr2SAwZmfQAUJXwg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4C36037A.023E:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:126913 Archived-At: > I'm not sure if Emacs is attracting new users the way it used to be. You're not sure. Neither is anyone else. > Certainly search volume has been going downhill for more than > several years (http://www.google.com/trends?q=emacs), and yet I > don't hear this issue being addressed here strongly enough. What issue? What isn't strong enough for your taste? Be specific. While you're at it, look at the Google trends for "software", "electronics", "web", "computer", "hand-held", "xml", "java", "lisp", "oracle", "ibm", "linux", "gnu", "open source", "intellectual property", "programming", "database", "user interface", "compiler", and "monitor". These are all "going downhill" in a worrisome way, the same as the Emacs trend. So are the trends for "music", "art", "genetics", "mathematics", "biology", "law", "disease", "united states", "europe", "washington", "new york", "san francisco", "mountains", "human rights", "literature", "magic mushrooms", "science", "agriculture", "industry", "commerce", "television", "university", "education", and "learning". Someone should alert the UN *now* - these important terms are not being defended anywhere nearly strongly enough. "United nations" itself is on the decline, but "un" is up. On the other hand, trends for the following do not have a pronounced downward trend: "god", "eggs", "peace", "war", "profit", "peanut butter", "heaven", "crisis", "equality", "taxes", "liberty", "visual studio", "chocolate", "market", "china", "apple", "shanghai", "paris", "darwin", "cassoulet", "bob dylan", "rolling stones", "microsoft", and "coca cola". It's hard to find anything flatter than "beer", "hamburger", "beauty", and "house", but "woman" and "breakdown" come close. Oh, and "duration" is also here for the duration. "Pizza" climbs steadily. "Watermelon" buzzes only in the northern-hemisphere summer, mirroring "depression" and "plow". "Riviera" is apparently only interesting when no one is there. "Kama sutra" has had a slow decline, except for a worm spike. "Martin luther king", "valentine", "easter", and "aids" blip onto the radar only for their nominal days. "Skill" is slowly on the rise, but "knowledge" is in precipitous decline. "Wisdom" pretends to steadily motor on, but "enlightenment" has no idea which way to turn. The good news is that the buzz for "happiness", "porn", "google", "twitter", "facebook", "iphone", "texting", "walmart", "mcdonalds", "carrefour", and "gin tonic" deafens! "trends" itself is slowly on the way down. Write a thesis on it. Summary: Emacs "going downhill" does not seem particularly noteworthy, at least as judged by your demonstration. Maybe the Emacs buzz, like the buzz around some of the other terms, is in fact slowyly droning down. So what? Buzz does not equate to attraction of new users. And attraction of new users is only one among many things that Emacs development should aim for. Periodically someone posts a message like yours here. There is a brief flurry of messages suggesting that Emacs urgently needs to add this or that feature of some other editor, UI, IDE, program, website or video game. The thread then goes downhill rather quickly. I would google-trend "emacs trend emacs-devel" right now, but I'm over-quota.