From: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
To: Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com>
Cc: org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: A simpler remember architecture (was: Re: Re: is there a hook to save a remember buffer?)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:40:43 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <2647742D-5A30-4F33-8FDF-E5203B2E0246@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20524da70909291348m6e1a6611ve01d6dac2faca93c@mail.gmail.com>
I don't know what the others think....
... but I think this is a brilliant idea.
- Carsten
On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:48 PM, Samuel Wales wrote:
> Hi Carsten,
>
> Here is an idea for a much simpler remember architecture that
> simultaneously solves Alan's problem.
>
> 1) To me also, a more complicated way to deal with
> remember buffers feels wrong.
> 2) If there is more than one thing you are working on, the
> power of the org hierarchy feels like the best way to
> keep track.
>
> 3) The current remember probably does not do what Alan
> wants, even with a better workflow.
> - What if you want to remember from remember?
> - It feels complicated to finalize the old idea and go
> there, then remember the new one, then finish the old
> one, then go back to where you were. Maybe we can
> simplify.
> - When you've finished the old one, you want to restore
> context to before the old idea. This is probably
> impossible. The stack is blown.
> 4) Other issues:
> - If you forget to finalize, you lose data.
> - It is easy to reflexively call remember from remember,
> making you surprised that the old idea disappeared.
> - You might forget that you had the old idea.
> Especially if you are having short-term memory issues
> or are distracted.
>
> 5) Here is my idea: discard the concept of remember
> buffers entirely.
> - Create the entry at the target location when you call
> org-remember.
> - Employ a virtual buffer to narrow to the created
> entry.
>
> 6) Some benefits:
> 1) Alan can remember, then remember again, then
> remember a third time without having to save
> remember buffers or name them (which he would need).
> 2) Your idea is where it should be. If you want
> context, you simply remove the narrowing.
> 3) org has access to the target buffer's buffer-local
> variables, org variables, encoding and multilingual
> settings of the target, etc.
> 4) Auto-save saves to a place where Emacs will pick it
> up again if Emacs crashes.
> 5) A backup directory is no longer necessary to restore
> data from a killed (remember) buffer.
> 6) Finalizing is no longer a matter of losing your data
> if you forget. It merely pops windows.
>
> 7) If you still want the concept of "I am not done
> remembering this remember," add a tag (:REMEMBERING:)
> at creation time and have org-remember-finalize remove
> that tag. To see in-progress remembers, call the
> agenda on that tag.
>
> 8) This eases yak shaving.
> - http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Y/yak-shaving.html
> - This is a simple way to keep track of what you were
> doing when you remember from remember.
> - I recommend making org-remember-finalize use a
> /stack/, so that successive invocations recreate the
> previous window/buffer context until they get to the
> original context.
> - I think that we intuitively work in stacks. This
> lets us avoid overloading our own memory.
> - If Emacs crashes, the worst thing that will happen is
> that you end up with a bunch of :REMEMBERING: tasks
> around your org files. Not lost data.
>
> To summarize, the current remember naturally leads to the
> need for increasing workarounds, and therefore requests for
> features, which leads to more complexity. By leveraging the
> power of the org hierarchy, we can simplify, and get yak
> shaving support as a nice surprise benefit.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 02:37, Carsten Dominik
> <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Allen,
>>
>> saving remember buffers is hackish and complex as it is, so I am
>> not going
>> to add this option.
>>
>> I think the workflow has to be this:
>>
>> Create a remember buffer and more-or-less immediately file it.
>>
>> If you need to work on the content for a longer time, work on it at
>> the
>> target location: Simply exit remember with C-u C-c C-c. The
>> buffer will be
>> filed and the target location will be visited immediately. So now
>> you can
>> work there as long as you want, and start another remember process
>> when you
>> need one.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>>
>>> I've looked briefly into the org-remember.el. A hook exists:
>>> remember-mode-hook. Im not sure it can be successfully applied to
>>> the case
>>> I envision.
>>>
>>> THere are tradeoffs to immediately saving a remember buffer to a
>>> file, and
>>> editing a note in the remember buffer, then saving with remember-
>>> finalize.
>>> I don't remember what they are, as they led me away from
>>> immediately saving
>>> quite a while ago. I was strongly encouraged by the establishment
>>> of a
>>> procedure to automatically save to a directory, any remember
>>> buffer that was
>>> not finallized. I had some issues with it, including how clunky
>>> it was to
>>> recover, and it was broken at some point, when I was too busy to
>>> fix it.
>>>
>>> One problem with editing in the Remember buffer, then saving
>>> later, is
>>> forgetting where I am. I can rely on several remember templates,
>>> and too
>>> often have lost the remember buffer's contents, when I ran
>>> remember again.
>>>
>>> What I propose is the make it possible---optionally---to invoke a
>>> hook to
>>> save existing remember buffers when C-c C-r (X) is used to file a
>>> remember
>>> note while in the remember buffer already.
>>>
>>> I found a test "bufferp". It does not seem to recognize the
>>> buffer name
>>> "Remember", nor "*Remember*".
>>>
>>> Is it possible to do this, or is remember going to defeat this?
>>>
>>>
>>> Alan Davis
>>>
>>> You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the
>>> world, but
>>> when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever
>>> about the
>>> bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing---that's
>>> what
>>> counts.
>>>
>>> ----Richard Feynman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Alan E. Davis <lngndvs@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Is there a hook to save the remember buffer when I type C-c C-r
>>> when I'm
>>> in an unsaved remember buffer? That would be almost as good,
>>> perhaps
>>> better, than saving the remember buffer to a special file or
>>> directory.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the
>>> world, but
>>> when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever
>>> about the
>>> bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing---that's
>>> what
>>> counts.
>>>
>>> ----Richard Feynman
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Myalgic encephalomyelitis causes death (Jason et al. 2006)
> and severe suffering. Conflicts of interest are destroying
> research. What people "know" is wrong. Silence = death.
> http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-09-30 10:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2009-09-29 20:48 A simpler remember architecture (was: Re: Re: is there a hook to save a remember buffer?) Samuel Wales
2009-09-30 10:39 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
2009-09-30 10:40 ` Carsten Dominik [this message]
2009-09-30 14:45 ` Tim O'Callaghan
2009-09-30 14:50 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-09-30 15:55 ` Tim O'Callaghan
2009-10-01 3:25 ` Sebastian Rose
2009-10-05 23:41 ` A simpler remember architecture Daniel Clemente
2009-10-06 0:24 ` Alan E. Davis
2009-10-01 8:03 ` A simpler remember architecture (was: Re: Re: is there a hook to save a remember buffer?) Jean-Marie Gaillourdet
2009-10-01 9:14 ` Rainer Stengele
2009-10-01 10:26 ` Peter Frings
2009-10-01 18:41 ` A simpler remember architecture Bernt Hansen
2009-10-02 8:08 ` Jean-Marie Gaillourdet
2009-10-02 13:54 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-10-03 2:48 ` David Bremner
2009-10-06 6:49 ` Daniel Clemente
2009-10-06 11:32 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-10-06 12:27 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-10-06 14:33 ` Daniel Clemente
2009-10-06 14:34 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-10-07 7:17 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
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