From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12406: 24.2.50; frame parameter `menu-bar-lines' and `menu-bar-mode' Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:33:46 -0700 Message-ID: <2642D1C71B064D30A09DABF179962841@us.oracle.com> References: <54FF7233AE2E4AF39FEC5B688D67341E@us.oracle.com> <50504320.7030908@gmx.at> <95E595BA09D247A9BD45F52A304A471B@us.oracle.com> <5050A571.3060809@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1347464067 27243 80.91.229.3 (12 Sep 2012 15:34:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:34:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 12406@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'martin rudalics'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 12 17:34:30 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TBoxQ-0002io-TW for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:34:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50676 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TBoxN-00089d-2E for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:34:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40121) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TBoxF-00089X-Oh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:34:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TBoxE-0000Ke-Hg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:34:17 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:47691) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TBoxE-0000Ka-E5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:34:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TBoxy-0003ht-5d for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:35:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:35:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12406 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 12406-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12406.134746408114223 (code B ref 12406); Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:35:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12406) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Sep 2012 15:34:41 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57237 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TBoxc-0003hL-Uz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:34:41 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:47739) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TBoxa-0003hE-Ih for 12406@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:34:39 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q8CFXnFm000544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:33:50 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q8CFXmIx005319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:33:48 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q8CFXljB015522; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:33:48 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.248) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:33:47 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <5050A571.3060809@gmx.at> Thread-Index: Ac2Q+HtjOyBUMX4qRf+FvLCSk3il+wAAif4g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:64191 Archived-At: > >> IMHO it should update a frame iff that frame has no > >> `menu-bar-lines' frame parameter.' > > > > Why? Why shouldn't a user be ABLE to turn on/off showing > > the menu bar in all existing frames? > > Because this way we'd have a consistent interface: The presence of a > frame parameter would signal "leave this frame alone". That's inconsistent with the convention that absence of a frame parameter is equivalent to its presence with a nil value. It is similar to proposing that we give some special signification to the absense of a key in an alist, as opposed to a key with value nil. Please find another way to say "leave this frame alone". That should not be difficult, and it should be possible to find something that has general applicability (i.e., any frames, any frame parameter, any function that affects a frame parameter). More precisely, we should be able to say "leave this frame alone for parameter BLAH". And even perhaps "make function FOO leave this frame alone for parameter BLAH". In this case, FOO is `menu-bar-mode' and BLAH is `menu-bar-lines'. And this should be 100% orthogonal to the presence or absence of the parameter, and 100% orthogonal to what the parameter's current value (nil or not) might be. > > One way or the other, we should find ways for users to > > alternatively easily do that (affecting all existing > > frames) OR protect some frames from that toggling. > > Do you have a practical use case where my proposal harms? You are unnecessarily coupling things that do not belong together. That's a bad idea. Whether a given parameter should be affected by a given function is logically unrelated to whether the parameter is currently present for a given frame, and is logically unrelated to the parameter's current value for a given frame.