From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23262: 25.0.90; Doc of `with-eval-after-load' and `eval-after-load' Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <257fe19a-0537-45f4-a085-4fe7f5600d91@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1460313862 14500 80.91.229.3 (10 Apr 2016 18:44:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:44:22 +0000 (UTC) To: 23262@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 10 20:44:15 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1apKLH-0005jW-8B for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:44:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36257 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1apKLB-0008Rs-Iw for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:43:23 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:116340 Archived-At: AFAICT, there was no great need for creating macro `with-eval-after-load' (and essentially telling users to prefer it over function `eval-after-load'). The "need" seems to have been only the fact that some users were not quoting arguments that they did not want to have evaluated. But having done that, whoever did it seems to have dropped the ball wrt documenting it. At the least, its doc should refer to `eval-after-load' (and vice versa presumably). As for the changes that were made to the doc string of `eval-after-load': FORM can now be a function, and what it can be is described before the description of what FILE can be. These are out of order. (OK, not very important.) As for the doc in the Elisp manual: `eval-after-load' is no longer even mentioned, except for these nodes: (1) `Hooks for Loading`, (2) `Coding Conventions', and (3) `Named Features'. The doc should be cleaned up to be coherent. And (IMHO) it _should_ document `eval-after-load' - far more important than documenting `with-eval-after-load'. Mentioning the latter does not replace describing the former. 1. Node `Hooks for Loading` says: Normally, well-designed Lisp programs should not use 'eval-after-load'.... Perhaps it meant to say `with-eval-after-load' here? If not, why not? 2. Node `Coding Conventions' says: Avoid using 'eval-after-load' in libraries and packages (*note Hooks for Loading::). This feature is meant for personal customizations; using it in a Lisp program is unclean... Again, why only `eval-after-load' for such a caution, and not (also) `with-eval-after-load'? 3. Node `Named Features' says: The direct effect of calling 'provide' is if not already in FEATURES then to add FEATURE to the front of that list and call any 'eval-after-load' code waiting for it (*note Hooks for Loading::). Now clearly it is correct to speak of `eval-after-load' here, and not `with-eval-after-load'. But is the same not true pretty much everywhere? Ultimately, the _behavior_ is that of `eval-after-load' - `with-eval-after-load' is only a wrapper. Finally, the Emacs manual makes no reference to either the macro or the function, except for this, in node `Foldout': To use the Foldout package, you can type 'M-x load-library foldout '; or you can arrange for to do that automatically by putting the following in your init file: (eval-after-load "outline" '(require 'foldout)) Is that mention appropriate, or should it be removed? What's so special about library `foldout.el' in this regard? In GNU Emacs 25.0.90.4 (i686-w64-mingw32) of 2016-03-20 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --host=3Di686-w64-mingw32 --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-static'