From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bob Rogers Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Consideration for Rust contributions in Emacs Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:44:20 -0800 Message-ID: <25550.58260.746317.785062@orion.rgrjr.com> References: <878rhuc79x.fsf@gmail.com> <66c86c61-93ac-4723-81a4-ced034f61550@Spark> <87zga9tln8.fsf@web.de> <83cz75i3iu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cxdhy28.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="435"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 23 20:45:02 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pK2kY-000APz-IY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 20:45:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pK2k0-0006Ez-JR; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 14:44:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pK2jy-0006Eo-8x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 14:44:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-oo1-xc31.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c31]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pK2jw-0002bG-Gi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 14:44:26 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-oo1-xc31.google.com with SMTP id b10-20020a4a9fca000000b004e6f734c6b4so2289479oom.9 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:44:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rgrjr-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=references:in-reply-to:subject:to:from:date:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Noekrgg54QN0D0H726b7TeGFOPrBkwU3Ld38WOErz44=; b=mafvtX60WWQRCseMNypBl51/z8VUCyeZqRmRYuakrFHiQQvEVMpGSBIT8Zst0TpiIx tm8dY8bklmtqkrXdUCcmTpQ7Pq6h74OkqYd2ODFc6p5woeSFE4diL3wCx+5OgzTYP63l Y3/7CDLfyufBiWXR3XHJxFm9beNuxLNgbJuuQvQ55GhYhqrvXV87iMGdCJc0qAMHAwi/ zChJRafXkWx79BkT4ezJJRc4KyAq9JNwVevcB8n/FWqOokmw7lOYwfHqQSgBTM4v7kBK OJT7CK2FgwgMFEG1SsjaXiosIwQEkKmlvRtBGA26myQnEpYAmlzrMEFkgvXUFV2Zcmuz nFqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=references:in-reply-to:subject:to:from:date:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Noekrgg54QN0D0H726b7TeGFOPrBkwU3Ld38WOErz44=; b=J7MGoF7pFQzFCyUsZjl40DNGeejYdSeoYcHnHENWWnNRhLZV3pgIr0qYADl34u2oNI qrKhSrxBZ2MM+475PDW5gqgpIlmQ82xB00G15j5DzUfARV1H2wbHa4LHKfIxucDb02Uy W+HkfiYglsY5EOlYMmlmjpLojCsitJM9Yr8Tn6ut5LLUl+8zNy0NIA/I1RtUqOvbTj/N Co0ZfIctEi29zL+iuNBuIYWcWQ2JxdaTs3v+0ioMTPQa3ng3Zs/tcvhKkxydDTDyxKMy V6JzwoRjO3GlXeKobxNvyMwxtNKuwyZyAa9Hgt9pMp0n+zBySoUopVKHmt4ZzgERI+/a zXAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kpPt3ljpZrXV1wk4fbV+yzh/EEx5WEucYrMBooeYRRFNcU0LbUm aTYjxs47vgxNgOwV1nEVMsFc2SyTtMYIgtoz X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvmwQo4Xq2aQXq5pwOvoaLyVOMKzS0FZ3IIK6InXQnZn1sJigXmu8i9EOkyOvurxpptaaS9fg== X-Received: by 2002:a4a:eb0b:0:b0:4f2:b562:db02 with SMTP id f11-20020a4aeb0b000000b004f2b562db02mr14512751ooj.6.1674503062808; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:44:22 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from orion.rgrjr.com ([2600:1700:7c2c:e000::24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x6-20020a4aaa06000000b004f11e1ce173sm23294836oom.5.2023.01.23.11.44.21 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 23 Jan 2023 11:44:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <837cxdhy28.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Received-SPF: none client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::c31; envelope-from=rogers@rgrjr.com; helo=mail-oo1-xc31.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -29 X-Spam_score: -3.0 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.147, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:302622 Archived-At: From: Eli Zaretskii Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2023 21:04:47 +0200 > From: John Yates > Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2023 13:22:44 -0500 > . . . > On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 12:06 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > . . . > > Moreover, familiarity with the internals implemented in C is IME quite > > necessary even for Emacs developers who almost never touch that layer. > > For some definition of Emacs developer, I do agree. I think for any serious Emacs developer. Limiting the familiarity to the Lisp level will leave many important aspects look like black magic, because what we expose to Lisp is higher-level abstractions that sometimes create a completely inaccurate mental picture of what really happens . . . I can speak to that. As someone not competent to hack on emacs at the C level, I nevertheless find I need to dip into the C code from time to time in order to understand what the elisp is doing, with increasing frequency over the last 30-odd years. I think that shows a net elisp => C migration during that time. A good example is the machinery that triggers redisplay and how it integrates into the Emacs "main loop". I try really hard to stay out of redisplay. ;-} -- Bob Rogers http://www.rgrjr.com/