From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: rustom Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs key bindings through the ages Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:47:45 -0800 (PST) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <2539ec40-b7b6-477e-93ef-fae5a92d426f@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com> References: <1195020235.983333.46390@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <85hcjnrdfa.fsf@usenet.my.skamphausen.de> <9cdd2de9-993b-4eae-87c4-0ea884bfd97e@w73g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <5588daf5-c96f-461d-9d01-2a736ad4d38d@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1195378866 20400 80.91.229.12 (18 Nov 2007 09:41:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 09:41:06 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 18 10:41:13 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1ItgeN-0007oM-W0 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:41:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItgeA-0004GV-EW for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:40:58 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 30 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.95.13.59 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1195375665 26594 127.0.0.1 (18 Nov 2007 08:47:45 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:47:45 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com; posting-host=59.95.13.59; posting-account=mBpa7woAAAAGLEWUUKpmbxm-Quu5D8ui User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070508 Iceweasel/2.0.0.4 (Debian-2.0.0.4-0etch1), gzip(gfe), gzip(gfe) Content-Disposition: inline Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:153884 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:49317 Archived-At: On Nov 18, 9:50 am, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > I wish I could have keybindings like vi -- single key-commands for > > the hand, powerful modes in the head -- the look like eclipse -- > > multiple proportional fonts -- on top of emacs' extensibility. > > Tried M-x viper ? > > Stefan The last time I tried it (long time back) it was quite un-vi-like because multiple ESCs jerked one back into emacs mode. Things may be different now --dunno -- but one loses any habit in 20 years. My point was more basic than vi/emacs specific viz. It may take a few more minutes or hours to learn h-j-k-l as against the more 'natural' C-p C-n C-f C-b but with a lifetime of use its a couple of million more keystrokes and correspondingly worn-out muscles. Programmers tend to forget that the logical and the ergonomical are different. Yeah-yeah I know we use the arrow keys today but that only confirms something that Xah (so tirelessly :-) ) proclaims viz that the emacs key-bindings are a relic of another keyboard from another era. Of course emacs is much better on my hands than firefox, ooffice etc so I am not complaining too much. PS. If I could go back to school today I would train on a dvorak keyboard. But returning to the womb is at best an expensive proposition :-)