From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: a key system to replace gnu emacs's 1000 default keybindings Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 06:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <24cdcb51-b0fb-47b5-b96a-3d2e40940d25@to5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> References: <5ee2582c-026b-4ab3-b5a7-c2d3e66ff511@oe8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> <4d8a8454-22d9-44a3-9f57-7d5791534d30@t2g2000pbl.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1338040215 1917 80.91.229.3 (26 May 2012 13:50:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 13:50:15 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 26 15:50:14 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SYHNl-00010X-17 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 May 2012 15:50:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35258 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SYHNk-0008E2-Jq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 May 2012 09:50:12 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!to5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs Original-Lines: 82 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.126.112.84 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1338039948 32196 127.0.0.1 (26 May 2012 13:45:48 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 13:45:48 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: to5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.126.112.84; posting-account=bRPKjQoAAACxZsR8_VPXCX27T2YcsyMA User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/536.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/19.0.1084.52 Safari/536.5,gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:192587 comp.emacs:102479 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:84993 Archived-At: Xah wrote: > > the best i can think of are: > > > =CE=BCTron ($570) > > http://xahlee.org/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html > > > =E2=80=9CTruly Ergonomic=E2=80=9D ($200) > > http://xahlee.org/kbd/Truly_Ergonomic_keyboard.html > > > Kinesis (=E2=89=88$250) > > http://xahlee.org/emacs/keyboard_Kinesis.html > > > my analysis of their design, for my personal taste, starting with > > best, are: =CE=BCTron, TE, Kinesis. > > > What's your fav? > > I don't have any. I need someone from geekhack to make me one based > loosely on the symbolics space cadet. people who have attachment to lisp machine keyboards are vintage lovers. They love the qualities associated with vintage, history, not functional fitness. Like, some people love cars from 1950s, spend millions to buy them, even though functionally they are worse than cheap cars made today. Likewise, functionally speaking, the lisp machine keyboards are functionally inferior to $10 brandless PC keyboard, even for the purpose of coding lisp in emacs. i heard that you can still buy one, btw. =E3=80=88Space-cadet Keyboard and Other Lisp Keyboards=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/kbd/lisp_keyboards.html > The Kinesis Advantage seems to > have the most impressive videoclips of speed typing but theres too much > unused real estate on it for my tastes. Does anyone here use it and, if > so, what have the keys been reprogrammed to? i haven't heard of Kinesis known for speed typing. Any links? note that Kinesis is actually smaller than standard PC keyboard, despite the fact that it has big whitespace in the middle. > No, I never used ergoemacs. I read a few of the articles but disagreed > with most of them. yes you use a keybinding for cursor movement that's in ErgoEmacs. > I have a higher opinion of RMS's mnemonics than you > do. for a moment i thought you mean you like RMS's keyboarding ideas betten than mine. Perhaps maybe that is what you meant. In anycase, care to elaborate? > However, the idea of getting real world statistics on emacs typing > behavior via a keylogger is a good one. thank you. That's the gist of ErgoEmacs. btw, am not sure that RMS designed the basic keys for emacs. The following is a quote from Daniel Weinreb , 2008-06-01, on comp.emacs newsgroup. Source groups.google.com. That's true. At the time Guy Steele put together the Emacs default key mappings, many people in the target user community (about 20 people at MIT!) were already using these key bindings. It would have been hard to get the new Emacs bindings accepted by the community if they differed for such basic commands. As you point out, anyone using Emacs can very easily change this based on their own ergonomic preferences. cited in =E3=80=88Why Emacs's Keyboard Shortcuts are Painful=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_kb_shortcuts_pain.html Xah