From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:38:45 -0400 Message-ID: <242D9B0C-9C38-436E-815C-D8390488474F@dancol.org> References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> <87y16vzqg6.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19180"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 23 16:39:21 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sLONE-0004oj-NQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:39:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOMu-0000cA-IF; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:39:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOMq-0000bJ-LG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:38:57 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOMo-0002wu-Ve for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:38:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:CC:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=P3iaMKj4PVv1LzkKLsuKEmP7UIcvlXLHAxOC6tAWWLY=; b=ZmxPRlNyK0tL6umkxhXZQehLAm MFYlemy8sTjD7J5ttsS2EeQ0DoxCJ3IK8fulvwg9rtkXlhMPtdMazP0uE86v5LF02ShchCQzbsNYP 8hXc3yEkKaX4hx19aLW1g1T/aZ55vkcMKOmrRuTMgsbcdmZFbiHGuIKE9ZGiftIRQ76OAZbMBX46T gTVoV0/4bj4k4SqINcZO168p78vVG0K8n6uK+fdSV5RaDOj7H9g0etg66aZ5JtW3iJXDHAUIxxhls OIeL9n9calK8eP5NNH3NNq+RrL5jgwEbYDQIiDX/AaE9X0zB6ek6XgzIy79XXGCnUPRsIvZvtUpOY 8ozzgzKw==; Original-Received: from 2603-9001-4203-1ab2-44c9-c16c-aa21-95a3.inf6.spectrum.com ([2603:9001:4203:1ab2:44c9:c16c:aa21:95a3]:59664 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOMg-00051n-RL; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:38:47 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87y16vzqg6.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1; envelope-from=dancol@dancol.org; helo=dancol.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320541 Archived-At: On June 23, 2024 10:25:29 AM EDT, Po Lu wrote: >Daniel Colascione writes: > >> Opt-out collection of anonymous metrics has been an industry standard >> for many years now=2E There's nothing morally objectionable about >> it=2E It's perfectly normal=2E > >Child labor That escalated quickly=2E > >And I certainly find objectionable software that connects to the >Internet without my informed consent=2E > >> Nor would there be anything about asking users "Collect anonymous >> metrics to help Emacs development? Y/N" on first startup=2E > >This is by definition "opt-in", which produces results that, by your own >admission, are totally meaningless=2E =20 It's more "forced choice" than opt-in, same as recently-required browser c= hoice screens in EU countries=2E IMHO opt-out is also good enough, but I'd = be happy with this forced choice too=2E I don't think an out-of-the-way pur= e opt-in option would collect enough unbiased usage data=2E The conversion = funnel narrows rapidly as friction increases=2E > It would also be irritating=2E It's one key, once, ever=2E