From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: raman@google.com (T.V Raman) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Q: text-quoting-style -- is its value a string or a symbol? Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:38:46 -0800 Message-ID: <22100.62726.409808.88475@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> References: <22099.41981.70381.495217@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <22099.44650.934181.371319@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <83h9kcysmv.fsf@gnu.org> <83d1uzz93q.fsf@gnu.org> <834mgbz7iu.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1448408349 14376 80.91.229.3 (24 Nov 2015 23:39:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 23:39:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, raman@google.com To: jwiegley@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 25 00:39:07 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a1NAu-0002fT-BE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Nov 2015 00:39:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42033 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a1NAv-0000JO-Gv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:39:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56133) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a1NAi-0000JI-Ag for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:38:53 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a1NAh-0003bi-Br for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:38:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]:34019) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a1NAh-0003bK-3A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:38:51 -0500 Original-Received: by padhx2 with SMTP id hx2so36878345pad.1 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:38:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references; bh=B5M/o5xfWUMOru9ERNaYxmrYL5voqfDFwB9NrIu9pdE=; b=lUIOFXRlHbcTQeNtgDB9pitifLWN2ERYCt6K/olGebQFebPt62TvfjzGoa6GkwRrbh 6ARbMcHfMONWAjdwjJlBEODCgkDN1Ax0uaQyTC/Sq2ckjrDVIHZn91mRUWWpiqZfKxTn 42jfzMsSh9Ebk2/GifstTqaNr5jm+pI5Fvm2ENdk5hNQqij93Qj13LkY2wJths3PmXme GzcGREMTCVhzyQa/HsD9GIsM6KuGA1Izo5HhVhDRuMkiEZ7CM4xTJg2Y4qI0LlanZFz6 rYnigM8QKqObj1TnOgSIoWk0wzhrpINo1lEmfWUnTwYaFoqbkwaQghLgPMRLpe629aZm 6IzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to :references; bh=B5M/o5xfWUMOru9ERNaYxmrYL5voqfDFwB9NrIu9pdE=; b=M4dci9a/jepvwwyDypCuPXvNu3/VaMzw0sybmti9bIGJOPfBfciRKY6s7lc4fKENCn Fdh3vR2uhMUiLohNlq80nqy/ZxRpmmds6j9P5C1+GB9LazfKJQxMrDHzmjmLXsWmjd3r y1l3WltRwYYypQTLSKHOsJ+3/6OPl6jh0msrU7+/namD8zUOL9Bnvrd6fNTNJw9cUj4A FTtE8xnsZyhb/VQP6f646jz9Y+tWEPiQfWHZvfYEVXBAJ9mL2YaD5OmzxIaEDgxD/4dU ctyfevPDJUcxiP3Venq2Y5gjuOpQkLaS9wMkJW7vIC5QVI3KAm2HyAqoWsmDe31Pxm8V CEZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm74DZ8SqewBlCvqZ8fKi+1TLCG8wa2O/flifu6kvfWIG6sUQnTji4xUh7fXrGViCib7Xco X-Received: by 10.98.10.141 with SMTP id 13mr26966220pfk.20.1448408330200; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:38:50 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from retriever.mtv.corp.google.com ([172.22.162.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 77sm2284467pfs.33.2015.11.24.15.38.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:38:47 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by retriever.mtv.corp.google.com (Postfix, from userid 13930) id 8A6141A1301; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:38:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.1.1 under 25.0.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:195195 Archived-At: John I meant the *Help* buffer text. I guess I got confused because with the new quoting strategy I had a hard time distinguishing the symbol vs string quoting styles --- partly because of the way I've defined the mapping from various quote characters to text-to-speech. That the prose itself has the word "quote" appearing in it makes the entire thing a completely confusing experience when you hear it spoken:-) -- though some of that is understandably unavoidable. But the fact remains, the distinction is subtle -- and if it's not obvious to someone who has used Emacs for 20 years, then it's not going to be obvious to at least some number of users. From that perspective, I find the response "that is how it is everywhere -- get used to it -- or alternatively first go change it everywhere else" some= what unproductive. I'll attach the *help* buffer text as it shows in my running Emacs-25 session so we are all talking of the same thing. And now that I've set it to the symbol 'grave, notice how it shows in the *help* buffer -- at least as I hear it, it's got no quotes around it whatsoever. So there is asymmetry here with respect to how one sees a symbol value displayed in the help buffer vs how a symbol value is documented in the help-buffer text. If you read it by itself, you'll still not know how to distinguish symbols from strings in the *HElp* buffer unless you bring up Help for two separate variables, one that takes a string value and the other a symbol-value -- and then display the *help* buffer for each side-by-side.=20 Help-Buffer text follows: text-quoting-style is a variable defined in `C source code'. Its value is grave Documentation: Style to use for single quotes when generating text. `curve' means quote with curved single quotes =E2=80=98like this=E2=80=99= =2E `straight' means quote with straight apostrophes 'like this'. `grave' means quote with grave accent and apostrophe `like this'. The default value nil acts like `curve' if curved single quotes are displayable, and like `grave' otherwise. [back] John Wiegley writes: > >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 > > It doesn't. It tells me it's a symbol. Why=3F because of the way i= t is quoted: > > with single quotes, not double quotes. Single quotes is how we mar= k symbols > > in doc strings. >=20 > Raman, When you say "reading the online documentation" in your origi= nal > report, do you mean the *Help* text, or the HTML generated for the m= anual=3F I > want to be sure we're all talking about the same thing. >=20 > If you see `foo' written (for example, in *Help*), it is always a sy= mbol > (using either those characters, or fancy Unicode single quotes). As = Eli says, > double-quotes are used to denote strings. >=20 > John --=20 --