Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

1. Running Emacs 31 build from latest Git @HEAD
2. auctex  "14.0.6" installed via package.el
3. I have package-initialize in my init and do not  do anything else as
   recommended by the auctex docs to install.

   When Emacs starts:

   1. (featurep 'tex-site) ==t

   2. tex-mode and latex-mode come from the built-in Emacs tex mode

   3. tex.el from auctex is not yet loaded.

   4. LaTeX docs start off in latex-mode (emacs builtin) -- not the
      Auctex LaTeX-mode

   5. It's all very confusing.

      Auctex sanity gets restored if I explicitly call M-x LaTeX-mode
      after opening a LaTeX file.

      
-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2024 07:39:26 -0700
> 
> 1. Running Emacs 31 build from latest Git @HEAD
> 2. auctex  "14.0.6" installed via package.el
> 3. I have package-initialize in my init and do not  do anything else as
>    recommended by the auctex docs to install.
> 
>    When Emacs starts:
> 
>    1. (featurep 'tex-site) ==t
> 
>    2. tex-mode and latex-mode come from the built-in Emacs tex mode
> 
>    3. tex.el from auctex is not yet loaded.
> 
>    4. LaTeX docs start off in latex-mode (emacs builtin) -- not the
>       Auctex LaTeX-mode
> 
>    5. It's all very confusing.
> 
>       Auctex sanity gets restored if I explicitly call M-x LaTeX-mode
>       after opening a LaTeX file.

Does it help to read bug#71902?

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

That bug is from auctex 13, is fixed, and I can verify that tex-site.el
is present in auctex 14.

Hopefully the auctex-devel folks  can shed more light?

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Arash Esbati]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> 1. Running Emacs 31 build from latest Git @HEAD
> 2. auctex  "14.0.6" installed via package.el
> 3. I have package-initialize in my init and do not  do anything else as
>    recommended by the auctex docs to install.
>
>    When Emacs starts:
>
>    1. (featurep 'tex-site) ==t
>
>    2. tex-mode and latex-mode come from the built-in Emacs tex mode
>
>    3. tex.el from auctex is not yet loaded.
>
>    4. LaTeX docs start off in latex-mode (emacs builtin) -- not the
>       Auctex LaTeX-mode
>
>    5. It's all very confusing.
>
>       Auctex sanity gets restored if I explicitly call M-x LaTeX-mode
>       after opening a LaTeX file.

Wild guess: What's the value of `TeX-modes' in the setup above?

,----[ C-h v TeX-modes RET ]
| TeX-modes is a variable defined in ‘tex-site.el’.
| 
| Its value is
| (tex-mode plain-tex-mode texinfo-mode latex-mode doctex-mode)
| 
| List of built-in TeX modes redirected to AUCTeX modes.
| 
| This variable can’t be set normally; use customize for that, or
| set it with ‘TeX-modes-set’.
`----

If that variable has sane values, then please do:

• emacs -Q
• eval:

    (progn
      (package-initialize t)
      (package-activate 'auctex))

  and open a .tex file.  If that works as expected, your AUCTeX
  installation should work and we have to look somewhere else.

HTH.  Best, Arash

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

TeX-modes is a variable defined in tex-site.el.

Its value is
(tex-mode plain-tex-mode texinfo-mode latex-mode doctex-mode)

List of built-in TeX modes redirected to AUCTeX modes.

This variable can’t be set normally; use customize for that, or
set it with TeX-modes-set.

  You can customize this variable.

-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

And with emacs -q -- and after evaluating the form you gave, opening
.tex files puts it in the *right* mode, LaTeX-mode.

Will dig further in my setup to see what's breaking it -- any tips?
-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Arash Esbati]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> And with emacs -q -- and after evaluating the form you gave, opening
> .tex files puts it in the *right* mode, LaTeX-mode.

So the general setup seems to work as expected.

> Will dig further in my setup to see what's breaking it -- any tips?

Hard to tell.  The only thing comes to my mind is that you shouldn't
have

  (require 'tex-site)

in your init-file if you install AUCTeX from ELPA.  Otherwise, I'm
afraid you have to dig in your setup.

Best, Arash

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

 So I use package-quickstart  to initialize packages, and I suspect
 the quickstart file generated  by package-quickstart-refresh may be
 pulling in tex-site.

package-quickstart is a nice piee of  magic that speeds up package
initialization when you  have a lot of packages.

Arash Esbati writes:
 > "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
 > 
 > > And with emacs -q -- and after evaluating the form you gave, opening
 > > .tex files puts it in the *right* mode, LaTeX-mode.
 > 
 > So the general setup seems to work as expected.
 > 
 > > Will dig further in my setup to see what's breaking it -- any tips?
 > 
 > Hard to tell.  The only thing comes to my mind is that you shouldn't
 > have
 > 
 >   (require 'tex-site)
 > 
 > in your init-file if you install AUCTeX from ELPA.  Otherwise, I'm
 > afraid you have to dig in your setup.
 > 
 > Best, Arash

-- 

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Arash Esbati]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

>  So I use package-quickstart  to initialize packages, and I suspect
>  the quickstart file generated  by package-quickstart-refresh may be
>  pulling in tex-site.
>
> package-quickstart is a nice piee of  magic that speeds up package
> initialization when you  have a lot of packages.

I don't use this feature, so I can't tell.  Does it mean that you get
good results if you rename your `package-quickstart-file', set
`package-quickstart' to nil, restart Emacs and open your .tex file?

Best, Arash

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

I plan to try that later today. I said what I did because I do see
package-quickstart.el pulling in tex-site.el


Arash Esbati writes:
 > "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
 > 
 > >  So I use package-quickstart  to initialize packages, and I suspect
 > >  the quickstart file generated  by package-quickstart-refresh may be
 > >  pulling in tex-site.
 > >
 > > package-quickstart is a nice piee of  magic that speeds up package
 > > initialization when you  have a lot of packages.
 > 
 > I don't use this feature, so I can't tell.  Does it mean that you get
 > good results if you rename your `package-quickstart-file', set
 > `package-quickstart' to nil, restart Emacs and open your .tex file?
 > 
 > Best, Arash

-- 

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Arash Esbati]

"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:

> I plan to try that later today. I said what I did because I do see
> package-quickstart.el pulling in tex-site.el

Ok, understood.  Curious about the outcome.

Best, Arash

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

So going through the steps of disabling package-quickstart etc didn't
fix the problem.

For now the work-around for me seems to be to explicitly call
LaTeX-mode  which I can live with given that I  do not  write as much
TeX as I used to in the past.
-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

Hopefully last word for now.

1. So I went back to the package quickstart set up.
2. I restarted emacs with the problem present.
3. I explicitly loaded tex-site  ie again.
4.  things went to a working auctex state, ie opening a .tex file
    gives me LaTeX-mode
-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

so this is what I added to my init -- it runs at the very end of
startup:

(when (featurep  'auctex-autoloads) (load-library "tex-site")); workaround
-- 

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

--

Thanks,

--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
♉ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
LOC: https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n97059241.html

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Ikumi Keita]

Hi Raman,

>>>>> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
> so this is what I added to my init -- it runs at the very end of
> startup:

> (when (featurep  'auctex-autoloads) (load-library "tex-site")); workaround

Sorry for being late. I tried the latest emacs HEAD and ELPA AUCTeX
14.0.6. They work for me without your workaround.

I suspect that either `major-mode-remap-alist' or
`major-mode-remap-defaults' doesn't have the expected value without your
workaround. Could you provide us their value? For me, the values are
,----
| major-mode-remap-alist is a variable defined in ‘/usr/home/keita/repo/emacs/emacs/lisp/files.el’.
| 
| Its value is
| ((doctex-mode . docTeX-mode) (latex-mode . LaTeX-mode)
|  (texinfo-mode . Texinfo-mode) (plain-tex-mode . plain-TeX-mode)
|  (tex-mode . TeX-tex-mode))
| Original value was nil
`----
and
,----
| major-mode-remap-defaults is a variable defined in ‘/usr/home/keita/repo/emacs/emacs/lisp/files.el’.
| 
| Its value is
| ((LaTeX-mode . latex-mode) (plain-TeX-mode . plain-tex-mode)
|  (TeX-mode . tex-mode))
`----

Regards,
Ikumi Keita
#StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine
#Gaza #StopMassiveKilling #CeasefireNOW

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

See the bit on this thread re package-quickstart

I suspect tex-site acts  like a flip-flop -- and package-quickstart
loading tex-site breaks things; loading it again I  suspect fixes
things.

Suggestion based on minimal understanding, simplify the world in
auctex-15 by eliminating tex-site.el 
-- 

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Ikumi Keita]

Hi Raman,

>>>>> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
> See the bit on this thread re package-quickstart

Unfortunately, it didn't help. I did on HEAD emacs:
(1) Customize `package-quickstart' to t.
(2) Restart emacs and M-x package-quickstart-refresh RET
(3) Restart emacs and open a LaTeX document file with mode:latex tag.
Then the buffer was in AUCTeX LaTeX mode.

> I suspect tex-site acts  like a flip-flop -- and package-quickstart
> loading tex-site breaks things; loading it again I  suspect fixes
> things.

Maybe, but I can't tell yet. We need more information to figure out
what's going on. I ask you again to provide the values of
`major-mode-remap-alist' or `major-mode-remap-defaults'.

> Suggestion based on minimal understanding, simplify the world in
> auctex-15 by eliminating tex-site.el

It's actually complicated because AUCTeX tries to keep compatibility
with traditional installation scheme. Maybe AUCTeX determines to support
only ELPA release and merge tex-site.el into auctex.el in future.

Regards,
Ikumi Keita
#StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine
#Gaza #StopMassiveKilling #CeasefireNOW

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

try setting package-quickstart to t in early-init.el 
-- 

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Ikumi Keita]

Hi Raman,

>>>>> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
> try setting package-quickstart to t in early-init.el 

That didn't make difference, either. What I did:
1. Put (setq package-quickstart t) in ~/.emacs.d/early-init.el
2. Restart emacs and M-x package-quickstart-refresh RET
3. Restart emacs and open the following file
----------------------------------------------------------------------
\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}

test $a$

\end{document}

%%% Local Variables:
%%% mode: latex
%%% End:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then the buffer is in AUCTeX LaTeX mode.

I confirmed that `package-quickstart' is actually t in that session and
I have ~/.emacs.d/package-quickstart.el with AUCTeX stuff.

I guess either 
(1) you haven't updated ~/.emacs.d/package-quickstart.el via M-x
    package-quickstart-refresh or
(2) some package(s) you introduced are interfering with AUCTeX.

Regards,
Ikumi Keita
#StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine
#Gaza #StopMassiveKilling #CeasefireNOW

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

dont know what else to check.

-- 

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

check if package-quickstart contains stuff from tex-site.

Also eliminate the local variables section 
-- 

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Ikumi Keita]

Hi Raman,

>>>>> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
> check if package-quickstart contains stuff from tex-site.

It doesn't, but it includes
 (require 'tex-site)
instead. Thus I'm pretty sure that my emacs loads tex-site.el when it
loads package-quickstart.el(c).

> Also eliminate the local variables section 

That didn't make difference, either.

I still think that the first step to investigate the issue further is to
know your values of `major-mode-remap-alist' and
`major-mode-remap-defaults' (without your workaround). Are there any
reasons that it's difficult to provide them to us?

Regards,
Ikumi Keita
#StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine
#Gaza #StopMassiveKilling #CeasefireNOW

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[T.V Raman]

according to the auctex manual, loading tex-site will cause things to
fail, see the documentation.

-- 

Re: Emacs 31 (git@Head) and Auctex (installed via package.el)

[Ikumi Keita]

Hi Raman,

>>>>> "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com> writes:
> according to the auctex manual, loading tex-site will cause things to
> fail, see the documentation.

I suppose you are referring to these statements[1]:
,----
| Already in version 11.81 the way to activate AUCTeX changed substantially. This should now be done with (load "auctex.el" nil t t) instead of the former (require 'tex-site)
`----
They mean that the _users_ aren't expected to load _explicitly_
tex-site.el in their init file ~/.emacs.d/init.el and alikes. Actually,
the system init file
~/.emacs.d/elpa/auctex-x.y.z/auctex-autoloads.el 
, generated at ELPA AUCTeX installation, is designed to have
(require 'tex-site)
because it's madatory for sane operation of AUCTeX. It's there on
purpose of the developpers of AUCTeX. Therefore, it *must* exist in
package-quickstart.el when you enable `package-quickstart'.

You said that
,----
|    When Emacs starts:
| 
|    1. (featurep 'tex-site) ==t
`----
in your first report[2]. I suppose that this means that your emacs loads
tex-site.el via package-quickstart.el as expected and something
unexpected broke the setting prepared in that tex-site.el. The
preparation is done through adding some entries to
`major-mode-remap-alist', thus it's important to know its value and
the value of the related variable `major-mode-remap-defaults'.

[1] https://www.gnu.org/software/auctex/manual/auctex/Changes.html
[2] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/auctex-devel/2024-07/msg00054.html

Regards,
Ikumi Keita
#StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine
#Gaza #StopMassiveKilling #CeasefireNOW