From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Barzilay Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 13:14:35 -0500 Message-ID: <20635.63115.874182.168553@winooski.ccs.neu.edu> References: <87a9uvv6ng.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bof9s7cl.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <874nl0ov8g.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352398497 32660 80.91.229.3 (8 Nov 2012 18:14:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 18:14:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Emacs development discussions , Daniel Hackney , Stefan Monnier , Dani Moncayo To: Nix Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 08 19:15:06 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TWWd4-00076K-VW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 19:15:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40617 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWWcv-00070o-Fa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:14:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40110) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWWcn-00070V-KM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:14:51 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWWci-0005GB-Eu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:14:45 -0500 Original-Received: from winooski.ccs.neu.edu ([129.10.115.117]:49646) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWWci-0005G5-9Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:14:40 -0500 Original-Received: from winooski.ccs.neu.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by winooski.ccs.neu.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qA8IEanN030418; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 13:14:36 -0500 Original-Received: (from eli@localhost) by winooski.ccs.neu.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id qA8IEZxc030414; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 13:14:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: <874nl0ov8g.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0a under 23.2.1 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 129.10.115.117 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154742 Archived-At: 40 minutes ago, Nix wrote: > > Compared to what XEmacs's scroll-in-place has to do (basically a > rewrite of the entire scrolling code, in Lisp, and it still doesn't > entirely work) it is enormously better. 99% of the work is delegated > to the original scrolling code. Yeah, that was the main thing I liked about this. I already emailed Stefan and said that not only is it small since it leaves the real work where it belongs, having it in the core is going to make it even smaller since large parts of the code are dealing with the usual work that is needed when a very basic command changes. If it becomes a customization option of the scrolling commands, then none of that is needed. > I'm honestly not sure how anyone can tolerate Emacs's default > scrolling behaviour -- I've used something like scroll-in-place for > my entire life with Emacs, the default was so hard to handle. I actually started without it, and I can say that a few short minutes of using the in-place thing made me wonder how I could ever tolerate the default... > I can't imagine that anyone actually *wants* page-up/page-down > sequences to leave you in a different place from where you were > before, but Emacs users are conservative old sods so it is likely > that a lot of users prefer it. So the default should surely not > change. :) > > It could also be used to let the user go back to where she was > > before scrolling (to simulate those other editors where point is > > not moved to stay visible while scrolling, so that non-scrolling > > commands teleport you right back to where you were). > > Ah. That's an interesting variation. Controlled by (setq > scroll-in-place 'unmoving) perhaps? (It should probably hide the > cursor while it's conceptually offscreen as well, on terminals where > that's possible, by flipping cursor-type to nil. Alas this would > make it vanish from non-selected windows too, if > cursor-in-non-selected-windows is t...) (This sounds like something that would be harder to do, since there are lots of things that relate to the point position which would break. Maybe a better way to do that is some specific event loop while scrolling that aborts before any other key is processed, but that would make the code different. But what do I know...) > I have a copyright assignment on file, and my employer (Oracle) > signed a disclaimer long ago. I'm not sure about Eli. (Cc:ed.) I've done it when I was a student in Cornell, I'm not sure that it still holds. I obviously don't mind if it's used in any way. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life!