worg accessibility

worg accessibility

[Samuel Wales]

I have an issue with worg, which is that it is unreadable.
The R tutorial, Carsten's beginner's guide, and
http://orgmode.org/worg/index.php, for example, run lines
together vertically when it is displayed with size 24 fonts
(the only fonts that I can use since Safari has no larger
ones).  I can sort of make out what they are saying, but I
give up because it is too difficult.  Smaller fonts are not
an option.  Magnification is not an option for various
reasons.

Firefox is no better.  It lets you go to higher fonts,
except for "minimum font size", which maxes out at 24.
Firefox simply will not go higher than this even if you set
the other fonts to 30.  It is as if it were a maximum font
size.  At first I thought that worg was forcing a font size,
but the problem is the same with "allow pages to choose
their own fonts" checked and unchecked.

At 24 ff does not run lines together, but ff's 24 is much
smaller than Safari's 24.  It is unreadable at that size.  So I have
to use Safari.
Furthermore, it is hard to switch browsers just for one
site.

So I wonder what is causing this.  Any ideas?

Thanks.

-- 
For personal and corporate gain, myalgic encephalomyelitis denialists
are knowingly causing massive suffering and 25-years-early death by
grossly corrupting science.
http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm

Re: worg accessibility

[Samuel Wales]

I should add that worg looks great in emacs-w3m.  So I do have
options.  It's just that sometimes I need to or want to use a GUI
browser, either because I can't use the keyboard at that time
(emacs-w3m's mouse interface is not as easy yet (e.g. no back button,
have to use menus)) or because I don't feel like doing copy/paste to
get it into emacs.

Thanks.

Re: worg accessibility

[William Henney]

Hi Samuel

2009/2/5 Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com>:
> I have an issue with worg, which is that it is unreadable.
> The R tutorial, Carsten's beginner's guide, and
> http://orgmode.org/worg/index.php, for example, run lines
> together vertically when it is displayed with size 24 fonts
> (the only fonts that I can use since Safari has no larger
> ones).  I can sort of make out what they are saying, but I
> give up because it is too difficult.  Smaller fonts are not
> an option.  Magnification is not an option for various
> reasons.

The worg site looks fine to me in Safari with big fonts - the biggest
size I can get is about 48 pt. I am sending you a screenshot off-list.
I haven't changed the default font size - I just used the trackpad
two-finger pinch+zoom to increase the font size, but Cmd-+ has the
same effect.

Mac OS X 10.5.5 on an early-2008 model Macbook Pro.

Cheers

Will

-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia

Re: worg accessibility

[Samuel Wales]

Thanks for trying it.

Your screenshot looks good, but I don't get that using the preferences
panel.  I am using Tiger.

I think it's something with worg, because most other sites do not run
text together vertically.

Zooming in further severeal times with command shift = does get
something like what you show, but most of the time I can't use the
keyboard at all, nor right click.  Just left click.  There is the View
menu, but using it several times on every page won't work.

I overstated the case for emacs-w3m.  Most of the time I can't use it,
so if somebody posts a link on the org list to a worg page, I have to
skip it.

Re: worg accessibility

[William Henney]

Hi Samuel

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for trying it.
>
> Your screenshot looks good, but I don't get that using the preferences
> panel.  I am using Tiger.
>

Ah, that might explain it. Lots of little annoyances got fixed in
Leopard (a few other little annoyances got introduced, but that's
another story....)

> I think it's something with worg, because most other sites do not run
> text together vertically.
>

Maybe it is the "text-align: justify;" setting. You could try nuking
that with a user style sheet - is that possible in Tiger?

Cheers

Will


-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia

Re: worg accessibility

[Sebastian Rose]

Yes, I'm currently looking through the CSS and I found, the line-height
was in pixels.
Should be `em' to adjust automatically.

Fixed that and pushed it to Worg. Please tell us if that helps.


Regards,

   Sebastian


Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
> Thanks for trying it.
>
> Your screenshot looks good, but I don't get that using the preferences
> panel.  I am using Tiger.
>
> I think it's something with worg, because most other sites do not run
> text together vertically.
>
> Zooming in further severeal times with command shift = does get
> something like what you show, but most of the time I can't use the
> keyboard at all, nor right click.  Just left click.  There is the View
> menu, but using it several times on every page won't work.
>
> I overstated the case for emacs-w3m.  Most of the time I can't use it,
> so if somebody posts a link on the org list to a worg page, I have to
> skip it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

Re: worg accessibility

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Sebastian,

I tried loading and refreshing worg, and the problem is still there.
It might be slightly better but not enough to let me read worg.

Would more ems help?

William sent me some CSS involving text align; that made no difference.

Sounds like it's just Tiger users.  So unless there are other ideas I
will give up on this (because I don't want to send people on a wild
goose chase supporting Tiger, which I presume is an obsolete version).
 It's not vital to be able to read worg (though very nice when
possible :)).  If there are simple fixes, let me know.

I very much appreciate all the effort by all who replied.

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 01:58, Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> wrote:
> Yes, I'm currently looking through the CSS and I found, the line-height
> was in pixels.
> Should be `em' to adjust automatically.
>
> Fixed that and pushed it to Worg. Please tell us if that helps.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>   Sebastian
>
>
> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>> Thanks for trying it.
>>
>> Your screenshot looks good, but I don't get that using the preferences
>> panel.  I am using Tiger.
>>
>> I think it's something with worg, because most other sites do not run
>> text together vertically.
>>
>> Zooming in further severeal times with command shift = does get
>> something like what you show, but most of the time I can't use the
>> keyboard at all, nor right click.  Just left click.  There is the View
>> menu, but using it several times on every page won't work.
>>
>> I overstated the case for emacs-w3m.  Most of the time I can't use it,
>> so if somebody posts a link on the org list to a worg page, I have to
>> skip it.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
> --
> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>



-- 
For personal and corporate gain, myalgic encephalomyelitis denialists
are knowingly causing massive suffering and 25-years-early death by
grossly corrupting science.
http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm

Re: worg accessibility

[Sebastian Rose]

Hi Samuel,


I scanned through the worg.css and found no fixed height or width in
there. The only pixel value would have been the `line-height' in the
`body' section.

I didn't push the change - I did now. So maybe in an hour or two it will
work for you? Let us know if so.


Regards,

   Sebastian

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> I tried loading and refreshing worg, and the problem is still there.
> It might be slightly better but not enough to let me read worg.
>
> Would more ems help?
>
> William sent me some CSS involving text align; that made no difference.
>
> Sounds like it's just Tiger users.  So unless there are other ideas I
> will give up on this (because I don't want to send people on a wild
> goose chase supporting Tiger, which I presume is an obsolete version).
>  It's not vital to be able to read worg (though very nice when
> possible :)).  If there are simple fixes, let me know.
>
> I very much appreciate all the effort by all who replied.
>
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 01:58, Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> wrote:
>> Yes, I'm currently looking through the CSS and I found, the line-height
>> was in pixels.
>> Should be `em' to adjust automatically.
>>
>> Fixed that and pushed it to Worg. Please tell us if that helps.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>   Sebastian
>>
>>
>> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Thanks for trying it.
>>>
>>> Your screenshot looks good, but I don't get that using the preferences
>>> panel.  I am using Tiger.
>>>
>>> I think it's something with worg, because most other sites do not run
>>> text together vertically.
>>>
>>> Zooming in further severeal times with command shift = does get
>>> something like what you show, but most of the time I can't use the
>>> keyboard at all, nor right click.  Just left click.  There is the View
>>> menu, but using it several times on every page won't work.
>>>
>>> I overstated the case for emacs-w3m.  Most of the time I can't use it,
>>> so if somebody posts a link on the org list to a worg page, I have to
>>> skip it.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>>

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

Re: worg accessibility

[Sebastian Rose]

Hi Samuel,


I pushed the change on friday - git told me :-)

But it seems that worg.css is not updated automatically. I CC'ed
Carsten, who is the one to do that.

Carsten?

It's just one changed line that, hopefully, will make the line-height
grow with the fonts used by the client.


Regards,


   Sebastian

Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> writes:
> Hi Samuel,
>
>
> I scanned through the worg.css and found no fixed height or width in
> there. The only pixel value would have been the `line-height' in the
> `body' section.
>
> I didn't push the change - I did now. So maybe in an hour or two it will
> work for you? Let us know if so.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>    Sebastian
>
> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>> Hi Sebastian,
>>
>> I tried loading and refreshing worg, and the problem is still there.
>> It might be slightly better but not enough to let me read worg.
>>
>> Would more ems help?
>>
>> William sent me some CSS involving text align; that made no difference.
>>
>> Sounds like it's just Tiger users.  So unless there are other ideas I
>> will give up on this (because I don't want to send people on a wild
>> goose chase supporting Tiger, which I presume is an obsolete version).
>>  It's not vital to be able to read worg (though very nice when
>> possible :)).  If there are simple fixes, let me know.
>>
>> I very much appreciate all the effort by all who replied.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 01:58, Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de> wrote:
>>> Yes, I'm currently looking through the CSS and I found, the line-height
>>> was in pixels.
>>> Should be `em' to adjust automatically.
>>>
>>> Fixed that and pushed it to Worg. Please tell us if that helps.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>   Sebastian
>>>
>>>
>>> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Thanks for trying it.
>>>>
>>>> Your screenshot looks good, but I don't get that using the preferences
>>>> panel.  I am using Tiger.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's something with worg, because most other sites do not run
>>>> text together vertically.
>>>>
>>>> Zooming in further severeal times with command shift = does get
>>>> something like what you show, but most of the time I can't use the
>>>> keyboard at all, nor right click.  Just left click.  There is the View
>>>> menu, but using it several times on every page won't work.
>>>>
>>>> I overstated the case for emacs-w3m.  Most of the time I can't use it,
>>>> so if somebody posts a link on the org list to a worg page, I have to
>>>> skip it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
>>> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
>>> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
>>> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
>>> Http:  www.emma-stil.de
>>>

-- 
Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449 Hannover
Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
Http:  www.emma-stil.de

Re: worg accessibility

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi Samuel,

I tried to reproduce this on my powerbook with 10.5 in
both Firefox and Safari and could not.

- Carsten

On Feb 5, 2009, at 9:06 PM, Samuel Wales wrote:

> I have an issue with worg, which is that it is unreadable.
> The R tutorial, Carsten's beginner's guide, and
> http://orgmode.org/worg/index.php, for example, run lines
> together vertically when it is displayed with size 24 fonts
> (the only fonts that I can use since Safari has no larger
> ones).  I can sort of make out what they are saying, but I
> give up because it is too difficult.  Smaller fonts are not
> an option.  Magnification is not an option for various
> reasons.
>
> Firefox is no better.  It lets you go to higher fonts,
> except for "minimum font size", which maxes out at 24.
> Firefox simply will not go higher than this even if you set
> the other fonts to 30.  It is as if it were a maximum font
> size.  At first I thought that worg was forcing a font size,
> but the problem is the same with "allow pages to choose
> their own fonts" checked and unchecked.
>
> At 24 ff does not run lines together, but ff's 24 is much
> smaller than Safari's 24.  It is unreadable at that size.  So I have
> to use Safari.
> Furthermore, it is hard to switch browsers just for one
> site.
>
> So I wonder what is causing this.  Any ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
> For personal and corporate gain, myalgic encephalomyelitis denialists
> are knowingly causing massive suffering and 25-years-early death by
> grossly corrupting science.
> http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: worg accessibility

[William Henney]

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 1:28 AM, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
> I tried to reproduce this on my powerbook with 10.5 in
> both Firefox and Safari and could not.
>

It seems that it is an interaction of a bug in the CSS with a bug in
Tiger's Safari that is fixed in Leopard. Sebastian's fix should sort
it for everyone, hopefully.

Will

-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia