From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chohag--- via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#69598: 29.2; colour support based on $TERM value not terminfo database Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2024 21:13:27 +0000 Message-ID: <202403082113.428LDTAX391981@zeus.jtan.com> References: <202403062301.426N1ms7277304@zeus.jtan.com> <86o7bqk06u.fsf@gnu.org> <202403071732.427HWear369011@zeus.jtan.com> <86sf120w9y.fsf@gnu.org> <202403071831.427IVMWs374766@zeus.jtan.com> <86plw5268n.fsf@gnu.org> <202403071959.427JxJTO382071@zeus.jtan.com> <86le6t247d.fsf@gnu.org> <202403072145.427LjkS8393330@zeus.jtan.com> <86jzmd19mg.fsf@gnu.org> <202403081136.428BaKSG077496@zeus.jtan.com> <86zfv8zzdv.fsf@gnu.org> <202403081423.428ENSpk162347@zeus.jtan.com> <86sf10zrnk.fsf@gnu.org> <202403081852.428IqU5m307520@zeus.jtan.com> <86edckzeom.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: chohag@jtan.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1465"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 69598@debbugs.gnu.org, chohag@jtan.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 09 04:13:39 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rin9W-00009D-2Q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2024 04:13:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rin9R-0004uW-5x; Fri, 08 Mar 2024 22:13:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rin9P-0004u9-0b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2024 22:13:31 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rin9O-0004jk-P2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2024 22:13:30 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rin9v-0002cT-47 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2024 22:14:03 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: chohag@jtan.com Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 03:14:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69598 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 69598-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B69598.17099540289994 (code B ref 69598); Sat, 09 Mar 2024 03:14:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 69598) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Mar 2024 03:13:48 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60010 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rin9c-0002b3-TI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2024 22:13:48 -0500 Original-Received: from 236-he.filtered.junkemailfilter.com ([184.105.182.236]:55783) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rihXe-0007SB-F0 for 69598@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2024 16:14:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [184.105.182.254] (port=37552 helo=mailout.jtan.com) (helo=mailout.jtan.com) by outscan.junkemailfilter.com with esmtp (JEF) id 1rihX1-0002sd-MO (on interface=184.105.182.200); Fri, 08 Mar 2024 13:13:32 -0800 Original-Received: from mail.jtan.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.jtan.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A401F81EAC; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 21:13:31 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=jtan.com; s=jtan8; t=1709932411; bh=lpPJL4Yzhqx8sNc5zvX0QLyBP/DkTO7jUuqk885DQSE=; h=From:To:cc:Subject:References:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Date:Subject; b=idXMVfqTGABmbaFJpnvi9i9JOyFN5YQUwRskRKE9js3yPY43fqj5DjJ0FcEV9r4t8 RL0kAX2eTYzi6ibEQGXGss0mofDpp8LbugNtNcx28YwTeaJjI7eVRE2WADl142d3VX Jslhu88kAn5COFFldsVRqOMMGyGIUVXseREuLxYA00uLKegfabG8EgQB/IsrMfJl+O SgaHleZrxfqTKuPdxfTYjeNHO72SpWqGPLy6EosASDcYn9q5ggM0MxhVVN7m1MDr0o atDIKpu4peOyk/l2NCTmIowiKqHEcCxJn8kzp7b327rT75FVUljR4kRrPOEKmugmCA cDmD0/Fh69lew== Original-Received: from zeus.jtan.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.jtan.com with ESMTPS id 428LDUMN391985 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Mar 2024 21:13:31 GMT Original-Received: (from chohag@localhost) by zeus.jtan.com (8.15.2/8.14.4/Submit) id 428LDTAX391981; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 21:13:29 GMT In-reply-to: <86edckzeom.fsf@gnu.org> Comments: In-reply-to Eli Zaretskii message dated "Fri, 08 Mar 2024 21:50:01 +0200." Content-ID: <91735.1709932407.1@llama.datum> X-Spamfilter-host: outscan.junkemailfilter.com - http://www.junkemailfilter.com X-Key-ID: ZWxpekBnbnUub3JnIGNob2hhZ0B6ZXVzLmp0YW4uY29tIDIwMjQtMDMtMDggMTM6MTM6MzIuMjEwIDFyaWhYMS0wMDAyc2QtTU8= X-Content-flags: advance agree apparently claim clear concerned cost dashes date dated discovered documentation down email-adr esire follow followed formal here imply information invented investigation limited message problem process product programs protocol provided published re reply request software term termcap terminal terminals terminfo time-ref travels work works X-Domain-list: jtan.com gnu.org X-Outscan: http://www.junkemailfilter.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 08 Mar 2024 22:13:44 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:281284 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > From: chohag@jtan.com > > cc: chohag@jtan.com, 69598@debbugs.gnu.org > > Comments: In-reply-to Eli Zaretskii > > message dated "Fri, 08 Mar 2024 17:09:51 +0200." > > Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2024 18:52:28 +0000 > > > > > So you now agree with me that a terminal file in lisp/term is needed > > > for this situation? Or are there issues that are still unaccounted > > > for, as far as color support is concerned? > > > > I don't agree. > > In that case, we will have to agree to disagree, sorry. I don't, sorry. > > In short, if emacs only supports colour (or any other feature) on > > specific terminals it knows about in advance, it should say so and > > not imply that a terminfo or termcap capability is sufficient. > > Support for colors beyond the basic 8 is very specific to terminals. Hardware terminals which could not hope to display anything close to individual full colour rendition for the background and foreground of each character cell, without exhorbitant cost, did have myriad ways of expressing their limited colour support, true, back when such things were in the process of being invented, but out of all the software terminal emulators and programs since which claim full colour support, pretty much everything has followed the conventions laid down by xterm and/or VTE which follow or try to follow ECMA-48, T.416 and related formal and de-facto standards, such as describing their capabilities with termcap (1978) and/or terminfo (1981). > Emacs solves this problem by relying on the name of the terminal. So Everything except, apparently, Emacs. > any new terminal has to abide by this protocol. That's how this stuff > works in Emacs. That's what standards are for. Formal standards are those published by some organisation, de-facto standards are the conventions followed by a majority. Emacs' behaviour here is neither. I should be clear that I'm not trying to get something fixed --- I don't have a problem here. I can get along just fine but in my travels I discovered that emacs did not work as I expected and, on investigation, as it described itself and so I thought that GNU would like know that their flagship product and/or its documentation was deficient. I have provided more information at your request which I hope you find useful but I have no need or desire to pursue this matter. Matthew