From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: How to read an integer from the minibuffer Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 09:43:24 +0100 Message-ID: <20211113084324.GC15896@tuxteam.de> References: <87ee7nqomk.fsf@mbork.pl> <874k8jz372.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czn7qhx7.fsf@mbork.pl> <87y25spml6.fsf@mbork.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30480"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 13 09:44:08 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mlodr-0007Yb-9K for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 09:44:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33568 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mlodp-0004Jv-7X for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 03:44:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47144) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mlodF-0004JN-RV for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 03:43:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:50839) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mlodD-0001sE-HO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 03:43:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=3i457EA/MtTbibaCaMrDSTIo+1zJEZH9kH6wZmw6ojA=; b=k8Qr6P+jo7eEKMwxhsLKihBPR9QHDp9wqanwwaJrvP/iZdJ4n5NG4WXyrNY3lro/LAFwHZJNONQgDLuDdC3sMqqbUJxiapxB1TmGG1oQnEx+zztMVylrlhZ2YbZwXGhYyIPUWutayxjNT+ldOFgm1p+wVlARZiSiKQYBdliRdevX4cj1cRHp5PT89f/FNQwgjg4jCwUqvUTPZthhvOLzfGeqWTy0b7w5ecYGpi/YsQ9NAQo85o5YQENJe3OBaIcyDYey1+fRjPbOXPeakzYRb5laKAu/+3TuvllXzeu6qB6uqDbiSjdbOW11y08ufj69FBtxY/DCueYnrRAIwvV5VQ==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1mlodA-0004hG-5Y for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 09:43:24 +0100 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87y25spml6.fsf@mbork.pl> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:134563 Archived-At: --Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 07:59:49AM +0100, Marcin Borkowski wrote: [...] > There are lots of examples out there of form controls trying to > prevent the user from entering invalid data, and they demonstrate many > things you can get wrong while implementing one. I tend to call this "authoritarian software" and I think it is one of the most preposterous blights our trade has to offer. I mean -- the programmers assuming they're smarter than me, the user, is already somewhat arrogant. But assuming /their program/ is smarter than their users is downright insulting. Now I konw this happens unintentionally (or with the best of intentions), and it takes some work to "get out" of this mindset ("don't let the user make /any/ mistake whatsoever"). What does help me, sometimes, is to turn around things and, for example, consider "let the user make mistakes, but make it so that they are recoverable". And, most important: respect your users. Assume they know best what's good for them, and if, in some situation, you have evidence to the contrary, help them to find out instead of telling them. Usually, this leads to more enjoyable UIs. Cheers - t --Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAmGPeqwACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZOBACfWwi0b2DqJfcP+usc+oHyD8pC cxYAmNgvGWbu5yRUCyHC+JCrW5eMb2Y= =SIX5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN--