From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Context Menu Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 22:48:27 +0200 Message-ID: <20210824204827.deazoohrb7e4ydld@Ergus> References: <83sfz0wfxz.fsf@gnu.org> <87y28sqhq8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lf4sw246.fsf@gnu.org> <87o89oqcpv.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20210823180207.ud2v7aar5ws5l7yj@Ergus> <87wnob1iik.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87a6l7tgqx.fsf@aol.com> <20210824160552.mtr5fvglhywsjpq2@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5525"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Juri Linkov , Eli Zaretskii , Emacs developers To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 24 22:49:36 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mIdMV-0001JU-NI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2021 22:49:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56054 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mIdMU-0001FM-8H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2021 16:49:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48240) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mIdLy-0000ZT-Ed for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2021 16:49:02 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic310-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.135.124]:35529) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mIdLt-0005Dk-0s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2021 16:48:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1629838134; bh=Fm4p1W2wmwObVuaik7GpVXT6wdS8ewham2imcf8YMQA=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=XfSIWl39aTkvZevMsz3XKsiLqTIvnTVizaofxEdIYgNnvjlFGdh2YwbVLxuoD+5IxVIM/UJavB9L9e/7K93WFW5LGbaBbteRc6VJxgx4EjTQkiQTb0M64tuWkN767RKugvc5QrfRSHI0lx6dt0+XIHaQti1aIKv4VkUmx5KLL2s+EugEiJ9CN7zq/XEkpFwaDKQ0Stncb1FmbxfFSw3ig61yBFBJrxgbviONwCbYYR9vcIGAJLUNCEgPan51414nZI1PdWVNJRBlhl4zzSg2w1mtnEgNre1o9BrdJHIgx9Fdf5RBE3wFa4lQlbpCTFA8jG/aIkNTM1DzZbvo/q0Ukg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1629838134; bh=69/lfjTeNDA4H1GXY2NHXu+9+XdZ6oJnbsH9vmjBVLG=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=EK1wX1e2Di8TL2xsSFYpEuCMlZPrNgJvx3UTalgBt4Obt+8LyYoEQ4b4kmUSPJ2GYDLM6qmORBDQaSCLeq1FniIASQGyk9VUBBtrV7e5GlO/x5rV0+vfoxSJgIJE2A+MimR0vRlTmBUVt3hh2uqDeKFfdXayPrWS8qwI5y+Vju9UlbDeWiSacM8g8XAGhyHk7YXKkv/pkw7wKZ0uH9oFazoH+yPBvCBRWXQ4I5ZQbkivdrNYfE77A7fRO8OzfbR1/IRpSlainW/0Io8ChXzFDE8OYDcgVhToqxLGMx6XT9Nn/F7RhQU7sZMLbm6JQCAWWTSd3G+imJJDceB1yjEhDw== X-YMail-OSG: .ChyyNUVM1mNXHU02k2k8xU3qhXWt530WhtO_1DZWA1RKuHFSo5x6LTAc.zbBC_ PxHmjX5YYubIFMrVQOUxIDpkMM4qhvrQK13W51Q9rdio8yE4Rs2obsKEd7VWmyOXxYB.EmBmEGJ2 JUj0tcPMTIUd9TWIsjCm81bODj5UEO7szr2yyXNlSutadI4o2UroeSp3OKiicmYRI2XrJKJSzGl_ 9vCJxXoRiMfEh_QMB1Nv_JuWFW.JX36MnEKs.RHblT0zmXqO5JUomxwd39809WYII0Gzo3AZzG08 m8si0I1mcdIbjDuPSBRY7GIEjShJRJQpAUNkP4a1SrSpzqPwnCe21uIb8wMzEySfmsIZpes6Vn3y LhMt6I_3QukBN_GHbN49RPpDbxuTDvHAnTve4KHFe949BsOFDbbOnRaHu6t8YJjN2w.asfCdBRpG lTxdtN0_luVfTV7_CHtEfpUnZ6ovqUlBko6dnuNHUe.qU1vgP._AFgJZYXWLtw6E565bEgL9h3tX xWonGBZzuqcfHX.GhKFtTgl8htQWFulWBGbfWTW5cXaxB_TbKXl44ORImrmG.2TooJrUK6thTn7q .163PzgGkhd_GhzRfe8nQOPoCTgXLgeOMwB8VkKcedrT4TfQrAd3tSo6sQu4QNjgvr8makH_iYKW zg6cY0Esqnt_B7JCu6P5i7dY0gxNH_azOHX6vwJzzLOKPbwt3YaJyhhiYc0zueEqQZCf93jO2d6a YRbxvWS4kZTB7YolH_lxF0u7.tkvHnSZzoaPjFgC7t3l.BvDF5_2RbkxcES6TRIMlGlzdjcCS9uy RtPmeAEiIQ9t6wIID.fhxYjWv9j8KlCzyFEXFzyXAp X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 24 Aug 2021 20:48:54 +0000 Original-Received: by kubenode518.mail-prod1.omega.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8f61270a2a282e7a0ab0198487a33fbf; Tue, 24 Aug 2021 20:48:52 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18906 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.135.124; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic310-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272925 Archived-At: On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 02:41:56AM +0700, Yuri Khan wrote: >On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 at 23:06, Ergus wrote: > >> It is not wrong actually. Because keys like [menu] require an >> alternative for those that don't have such a key. That's why in some >> emulators they are the same sequence than some other complex >> combinations like S- or C-S-; or some keys not present in our >> keyboards anymore (like ) but can be emulated with combinations. > >The alternative for people who don’t have Menu is Shift+F10. Has been >since Windows 95 and is adopted by GTK applications. And wxWidgets >applications. And maybe other X toolkits as well. > >Shift+F6 is “go to previous pane” in Windows guidelines. Leave that >for people who want an easier key than C-- C-x o. > Shift+F6 is unbound by default. Any way I can live with that but rxvt will sacrifice an extra binding. >What I’m opposed to is doing things in an application to cover for a >design flaw in a single terminal emulator. > I don't care a design flaw while there is some design. Having [menu] bound in gui and see the same key as [print] in xterm is just inconsistent and a waste of a valuable key. >> >* Push for terminfo to include a string capability that indicates the >> >sequence sent by the Menu key. Push for the terminfo database to >> >include that capability for major terminal emulators. >> > >> I already discussed this with the xterm developer, but the current >> translation is direct and does not rely on tricks in the emulator >> side. Xterm actually can distinguish between them, but I can't force >> every emacs user to use xterm because it is very limited in many >> aspects. > >How is it direct? xev > The evdev keycode is 135. CSI 2 9 ~ is the >VT220 sequence for F16; in evdev, is 194. > >(F16 also somewhat explains rxvt’s Shift+F6, by pretending Shift+F >is F<10+n>. Still wrong, because there are 12 function keys! Also >because one can build a keyboard that has both F16 and Menu, as USB >HID Tables assign different codes to these.) > >> Actually the recommended terminal emulator to work with emacs is >> xterm. It is the most compatible and actually was a topic of a previous >> discussion/question I did long time ago. > >The most compatible with what? VT220? Not relevant nowadays. > The most compatible with everything in emacs out of the box; tmux; fancy combinations and so on. Emacs gave me too many problems with bindings when I tried to use it in other terminal emulators. (and the list is veeery long) >PC keyboard that most everybody has on their desk? No. > Totally disagree here. >> xterm allows to distinguish between S- and the [menu] sequence, they >> are different. But urxvt and many others don't; so that will imply that >> in urxvt, the context menu will take at least 3 keys when bound to >> [S-f10]. Because binding to [menu] will also take [S-f6]. That's what I >> want to avoid. Also because S- is already taken. > >To avoid having Menu take Shift+F6, get rxvt to use different >sequences for Menu and Shift+F6. rxvt has many other worst compatibility issues than this and requires a lot of customization to work decently with emacs... so your explication of Shift+F clarifies a lot.