From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Add a configure option for NATIVE_FULL_AOT? Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 09:27:06 +0200 Message-ID: <20210819072706.GD13517@tuxteam.de> References: <87zgtg3x4i.fsf@wavexx.thregr.org> <83zgtg57jv.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1er3oqr.fsf@igel.home> <83lf4z6hh0.fsf@gnu.org> <83fsv75w43.fsf@gnu.org> <875yw3xpek.fsf@gnu.org> <838s0z552h.fsf@gnu.org> <83bl5t3obt.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="JwB53PgKC5A7+0Ej" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26889"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 19 09:27:50 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mGcSr-0006ix-QH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 09:27:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35076 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mGcSq-00063L-TH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 03:27:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50488) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mGcSF-0005Ml-7L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 03:27:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:50488) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mGcSC-0006Ld-4B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 03:27:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=CXPoqb4scuzE2nZmReIIQYjM097lESRM7vVSnWFJYbo=; b=twDfVDUu39/28sJyut10oQC2uFGx3h8g07xgFu07epgLRzYkBkHpLf1GqZqKd/i1VhhQbD2uABF48hrkNztbNPdIoeNSJxHuXJ6psf+kuU9FUHweVpVS33hqMTydxZebXwRuiQj9KmLSZY7LM+kWOE+Et6e0K9c/c/6F7CNNC7JB8KAVo/kvs3m15j9iD5NAMYhRw32WxoGf+M50er8jBX9FxG/OHvSBveKJdvMlgJ7I8KVskoh8qjDiQkSyGMkbWyPrVvXFzpeJUfbCjIaTaOtCEpvPK4XiJRQxJONM/lW833PIaGuy65z/8W6/e/e3rSOVVG+clmeEuoO6bHxBzg==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1mGcSA-0004Mg-39 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 09:27:06 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83bl5t3obt.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272647 Archived-At: --JwB53PgKC5A7+0Ej Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 10:07:02AM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Richard Stallman > > Cc: tsdh@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 22:34:10 -0400 > >=20 > > That's not what I said or meant. What I meant was that considering > > the problem non-existent because this is how distros install the Li= sp > > files sounds strange to me, because it assumes no user will ever wa= nt > > to modify these files enough to make them writable. IOW, the > > assumption that bothered me was that no one will ever want to modify > > those files, e.g., to fix some bug or add a feature. > >=20 > > Distros must provide a way to download the sources. You could > > download the sources into your home directory, make your modified > > versions, and put them in a directory in load-path. > >=20 > > Does this solve the problem, in practical terms? >=20 > Not the problem I was describing, it doesn't. >=20 > The problem I was describing was with the user modifying the *.el > files installed by a distro. (The fact that distros by default > install *.el files in a place that is generally not writable by users > is irrelevant, because they can be made writable, or the *.el files > can be copied to a writable location and modified there.) When users > do modify the *.el files, the corresponding distributed *.eln files > will no longer be loaded by Emacs, and there will be another version > of those *.eln files in a different location. That is a gate to the > "DLL hell" in its Emacs incarnation: several different shared-library > objects of the same name in different locations. At the very least, > users will be confused, and several obscure problems could happen that > will be hard to debug. For example, the user's eln-cache directory, > where the updated *.eln files will be stored, could be cleaned up by > the user, not knowing that by doing that he/she effectively reverts to > using the old code, triggers JIT compilation when he/she loads the > same file the next time, etc. Not a catastrophe, but certainly > confusing and not expected. Sometimes, questions just have to be put by somewhere else. Now I understand your position better :-) I agree that this problem hasn't a trivial (or unique) solution. But this is something for distros to solve. Emacs has just to provide the mechanisms to make that possible (and, as far as I can see, it does). Note that this problem already exists with .el/.elc files. Cheers - t --JwB53PgKC5A7+0Ej Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAmEeB8oACgkQBcgs9XrR2kbywwCfV5swZp/ItrDr8cbQzUs5WEEw bGcAn1zvYwacjpuDhmk5wdUBkGXJZBNr =dXzo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --JwB53PgKC5A7+0Ej--