From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: [DOC] About Lisp Data Types Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 15:22:16 +0200 Message-ID: <20210801132216.GA31442@tuxteam.de> References: <87h7g9h67j.fsf@laposte.net> <877dh5l7rv.fsf@zoho.eu> <87y29ljs26.fsf@zoho.eu> <875ywpgw0v.fsf@laposte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14540"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 01 15:23:03 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mABQl-0003bY-Cb for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 15:23:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51236 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mABQj-0000Uu-Rf for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 09:23:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58464) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mABQB-0000Um-DL for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 09:22:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:54589) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mABQ9-0004hd-28 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 09:22:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=2nQ33aiKhkXVG2m/M3t/bZ5zuL3Q/7JUgpId+9gfElw=; b=Fo5pnTSqV5reSbHJNSePpms6kLZlik7mQwHzDVslX/q2Z3GDxLy2gGgZx/HQg/9IrmBQHdf8Bv8wKl4h92tWz9Jw7kdGwgZTIHGXC8KItGrntFXZjRIrAcw6gyE0hhtNfT/bjOPDHCw5WsEzUeaKue+7KDhNnWCgWe5xcEv0TGHr6zT9z8jBUh4kx3lwkFIMJKLg6TkL/6MicmbO38VrQNpjVEFg1AnZj2Y1lGO+DEUu9ZYFY8kgtwlFBEOZe0z6uwXNpRN+xGFzwZu8+kDYP9IDhszJufO3HrTxSHeiVlGtuLzj6LOYszp4qCfFxqDTvqkTeK/tuF4gcGMyMwMf0w==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1mABQ0-0003XU-Mv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 15:22:16 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <875ywpgw0v.fsf@laposte.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:132269 Archived-At: --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 01, 2021 at 03:00:16PM +0200, Kevin Vigouroux via Users list fo= r the GNU Emacs text editor wrote: > I agree with you. Unfortunately, some parts of the explanation are > unclear or missing. >=20 > In other languages, an expression is text; it has no other form. In > Lisp, an expression is primarily a Lisp object and only secondarily t= he > text that is the object=E2=80=99s read syntax. Often there is no nee= d to > emphasize this distinction, but you must keep it in the back of your > mind, or you will occasionally be very confused. >=20 > =E2=80=A2 An expression is a Lisp object which gives its meaning. Well, not really. An expression is something abstract. It can be represented as a Lisp object. So the expression (+ 12 x) is represented by the list ('+ 12 'x) (now let's gloss over the fact that '+ is just a shorthand for (quote +) and so on) So a list of the symbol +, the number 12 and the symbol x. An expression can be evaluated: then it corresponds to a value. The value falling out from that evaluation depends on things (for the example above, it will depend on the current values assigned to + and x). > =E2=80=A2 An expression cannot be understood in its original form (text). I don't understand what you want to say here: cannot be understood by whom? A person? A computer program? Which one? > It makes no sense at first. If you show me a piece of Hindi text written in Devanagari, I'll be unable to make heads or tails of it. But this is due to my lack of culture, not to the writing or language themselves. This sounds like a stupid remark, but what I want to hint at is, that if you don't specify context, it is difficult to understand what you are after. Cheers - t --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAmEGoAgACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZzEwCfckODPAAuFJKqtrCZyrDVh5Nx DT0An31jbmUw6/6buMesTwoP2C2vtXph =UldT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn--