Reply-To -> CC?

Reply-To -> CC?

[Michael Heerdegen]

Hi,

I'm using Gnus.  That's actually the only connection of this question to
Emacs, sorry.

My question: Is it possible to setup the message header of a message to
person A so that a person B is CC'd, and to specify something in the
Reply-To header so that when A responds, the message is send to me and
also automatically CC'd to B again?  Or can this be forced in some other
way?

I ask because some people's MUAs seem to silently drop the CC'd address
and those people then fall out of the discussion.


TIA,

Michael.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Michael Heerdegen wrote:

> I'm using Gnus. That's actually the only connection of this
> question to Emacs, sorry. [...]

Well, that's nothing to be sorry about since Gnus (built-in in
vanilla Emacs) is certainly not off topic here...

But even you want to be even more on topic there is
gmane.emacs.gnus.general or ding@gnus.org as I think you
know...

As for your question: no idea :)

-- 
underground experts united
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Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Pankaj Jangid]

Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> writes:

> My question: Is it possible to setup the message header of a message to
> person A so that a person B is CC'd,

This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’. Something like this,

             (message-to-A-p        ;; A function predicate 
              (CC "B <b@cc.org>"))


> and to specify something in the Reply-To header so that when A
> responds, the message is send to me and also automatically CC'd to B
> again?  Or can this be forced in some other way?

Most MUA’s seem to honour MFT headers. You could try setting it with
‘message-goto-mail-followup-to’ C-c C-f C-m. If it works then set that
as well in the above posting-style.

> I ask because some people's MUAs seem to silently drop the CC'd address
> and those people then fall out of the discussion.

If the person replying is using Reply-All action then it should not drop
the CC’ed address. If it is then I doubt that it will honours MFT. But
you may give it a try.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Pankaj Jangid wrote:

> This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’. Something like this,
>
>              (message-to-A-p        ;; A function predicate 
>               (CC "B <b@cc.org>"))

Perhaps, or something like this is the/a message send hook:

(when (string= (message-field-value "To") "Joe Hacker <joe@hacker.com>")
  (message-goto-cc)
  (insert "Jane Hacker <jane@hacker.com>") )

or just use the ~/.mailrc file and define an alias for them both

alias jane "Jane Hacker <jane@hacker.com>"
alias joe  "Joe Hacker <joe@hacker.com>"
alias hackers jane joe

but I got the impression the OP wanted a header setting to
instruct another program what to do, and to do that, if
possible, one perhaps rather should digest some RFCs and see
what standards are proposed (and implemented/reinforced) ...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Tim Landscheidt]

Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> wrote:

> I'm using Gnus.  That's actually the only connection of this question to
> Emacs, sorry.

> My question: Is it possible to setup the message header of a message to
> person A so that a person B is CC'd, and to specify something in the
> Reply-To header so that when A responds, the message is send to me and
> also automatically CC'd to B again?  Or can this be forced in some other
> way?

> I ask because some people's MUAs seem to silently drop the CC'd address
> and those people then fall out of the discussion.

AFAIK: It is not possible to preset a Cc: header, but you
can preset the To: header with Reply-To: which can hold
/multiple/ mail addresses, e. g. the message's author and B.

(Of course, with regard to your original problem, there is
also the human factor: If I get a message that the author
Cced to B, I don't necessarily assume that my answer should
be Cced to B as well; perhaps the author only wanted B to
see the author's message.  Therefore it might be useful to
spell out in each message who should be kept in the loop and
why (or use a ticketing system :-)).)

Tim

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Michael Heerdegen]

Hello Pankaj,

thanks so far.  One question:

> This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’. Something like this,
>
>              (message-to-A-p        ;; A function predicate 
>               (CC "B <b@cc.org>"))

Does this also work when composing a new mail, or only when replying?

Thanks,

Michael.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Pankaj Jangid]

Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
<help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

>> This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’. Something like this,
>>
>>              (message-to-A-p        ;; A function predicate 
>>               (CC "B <b@cc.org>"))
>
> Perhaps, or something like this is the/a message send hook:
>
> (when (string= (message-field-value "To") "Joe Hacker <joe@hacker.com>")
>   (message-goto-cc)
>   (insert "Jane Hacker <jane@hacker.com>") )

I prefer to setup headers before send action. But that is a matter of
choice, I guess.

> but I got the impression the OP wanted a header setting to
> instruct another program what to do, and to do that, if
> possible, one perhaps rather should digest some RFCs and see
> what standards are proposed (and implemented/reinforced) ...

I mentioned MFT as well. But it all depends on the other person’s
MUA. Not all RFCs are implemented by all of them.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Michael Heerdegen wrote:

>> This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’ [...]
>
> Does this also work when composing a new mail, or only
> when replying?

I was just thinking that, and I don't know, but if not, you
can use `message-send-hook':

  Hook run before sending messages.
  This hook is run quite early when sending.

-- 
underground experts united
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https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Pankaj Jangid]

Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> writes:

>> This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’. Something like this,
>>
>>              (message-to-A-p        ;; A function predicate 
>>               (CC "B <b@cc.org>"))
>
> Does this also work when composing a new mail, or only when replying?

Yes. It should work with all the messages.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Michael Heerdegen]

Tim Landscheidt <tim@tim-landscheidt.de> writes:

> Therefore it might be useful to spell out in each message who should
> be kept in the loop and why

That's what I did, but it didn't help in my case.  The recipient is not
a software developer but the leader of a dog school, and she just don't
care enough (which I understand).

Is there an alternative solution to this problem, "Email Groups" or
something like that?  (No, we don't want to use a messenger instead)

Thanks,

Michael.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Michael Heerdegen]

Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> writes:

> >> This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’. Something like this,
> >>
> >>              (message-to-A-p        ;; A function predicate 
> >>               (CC "B <b@cc.org>"))
> >
> > Does this also work when composing a new mail, or only when replying?
>
> Yes. It should work with all the messages.

And Gnus modifies the header silently before sending?  Without
additional setup?

Michael.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> writes:

> Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> writes:
>
>> >> This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’. Something like this,
>> >>
>> >>              (message-to-A-p        ;; A function predicate 
>> >>               (CC "B <b@cc.org>"))
>> >
>> > Does this also work when composing a new mail, or only when replying?
>>
>> Yes. It should work with all the messages.
>
> And Gnus modifies the header silently before sending?  Without
> additional setup?

I don't think so: posting styles only work when replying to a message in
a particular group, or composing a new message "from" a group using "C-u
m" or "C-u a" while point is on that particular group.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Pankaj Jangid]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

>>> >> This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’. Something like this,
>>> >>
>>> >>              (message-to-A-p        ;; A function predicate 
>>> >>               (CC "B <b@cc.org>"))
>>> >
>>> > Does this also work when composing a new mail, or only when replying?
>>>
>>> Yes. It should work with all the messages.
>>
>> And Gnus modifies the header silently before sending?  Without
>> additional setup?
>
> I don't think so: posting styles only work when replying to a message in
> a particular group, or composing a new message "from" a group using "C-u
> m" or "C-u a" while point is on that particular group.

It works for a group if the fist element is a regexp. Quoting from the
doc:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
   The first element in each style is called the ‘match’.  If it’s a
string, then Gnus will try to regexp match it against the group name.
If it is the form ‘(header MATCH REGEXP)’, then Gnus will look in the
original article for a header whose name is MATCH and compare that
REGEXP.  MATCH and REGEXP are strings.  (The original article is the one
you are replying or following up to.  If you are not composing a reply
or a followup, then there is nothing to match against.)  If the ‘match’
is a function symbol, that function will be called with no arguments.
If it’s a variable symbol, then the variable will be referenced.  If
it’s a list, then that list will be ‘eval’ed.  In any case, if this
returns a non-‘nil’ value, then the style is said to “match”.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

See “If the ‘match’ is a function symbol”.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>>>> >> This is possible with ‘Posting Styles’. Something like this,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>              (message-to-A-p        ;; A function predicate 
>>>> >>               (CC "B <b@cc.org>"))
>>>> >
>>>> > Does this also work when composing a new mail, or only when replying?
>>>>
>>>> Yes. It should work with all the messages.
>>>
>>> And Gnus modifies the header silently before sending?  Without
>>> additional setup?
>>
>> I don't think so: posting styles only work when replying to a message in
>> a particular group, or composing a new message "from" a group using "C-u
>> m" or "C-u a" while point is on that particular group.
>
> It works for a group if the fist element is a regexp. Quoting from the
> doc:
>
>    The first element in each style is called the ‘match’.  If it’s a
> string, then Gnus will try to regexp match it against the group name.
> If it is the form ‘(header MATCH REGEXP)’, then Gnus will look in the
> original article for a header whose name is MATCH and compare that
> REGEXP.  MATCH and REGEXP are strings.  (The original article is the one
> you are replying or following up to.  If you are not composing a reply
> or a followup, then there is nothing to match against.)  If the ‘match’
> is a function symbol, that function will be called with no arguments.
> If it’s a variable symbol, then the variable will be referenced.  If
> it’s a list, then that list will be ‘eval’ed.  In any case, if this
> returns a non-‘nil’ value, then the style is said to “match”.
>
> See “If the ‘match’ is a function symbol”.

Right, that's pretty much what I was saying.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Pankaj Jangid]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

>> It works for a group if the fist element is a regexp. Quoting from the
>> doc:
>>
>>    The first element in each style is called the ‘match’.  If it’s a
>> string, then Gnus will try to regexp match it against the group name.
>> If it is the form ‘(header MATCH REGEXP)’, then Gnus will look in the
>> original article for a header whose name is MATCH and compare that
>> REGEXP.  MATCH and REGEXP are strings.  (The original article is the one
>> you are replying or following up to.  If you are not composing a reply
>> or a followup, then there is nothing to match against.)  If the ‘match’
>> is a function symbol, that function will be called with no arguments.
>> If it’s a variable symbol, then the variable will be referenced.  If
>> it’s a list, then that list will be ‘eval’ed.  In any case, if this
>> returns a non-‘nil’ value, then the style is said to “match”.
>>
>> See “If the ‘match’ is a function symbol”.
>
> Right, that's pretty much what I was saying.

Probably, I have misunderstood this,

>>> I don't think so: posting styles only work when replying to a message in
>>> a particular group, or composing a new message "from" a group using "C-u
>>> m" or "C-u a" while point is on that particular group.

Do you mean that when we are in group buffer and press just the ‘m’ or
‘a’ then the posting styles won’t be consulted? Or that we are always in
one or the other group context. On my installation, the default posting
style ((".*") ...) is always taken into account.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On 12/21/20 09:23 AM, Pankaj Jangid wrote:
> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>>> It works for a group if the fist element is a regexp. Quoting from the
>>> doc:
>>>
>>>    The first element in each style is called the ‘match’.  If it’s a
>>> string, then Gnus will try to regexp match it against the group name.
>>> If it is the form ‘(header MATCH REGEXP)’, then Gnus will look in the
>>> original article for a header whose name is MATCH and compare that
>>> REGEXP.  MATCH and REGEXP are strings.  (The original article is the one
>>> you are replying or following up to.  If you are not composing a reply
>>> or a followup, then there is nothing to match against.)  If the ‘match’
>>> is a function symbol, that function will be called with no arguments.
>>> If it’s a variable symbol, then the variable will be referenced.  If
>>> it’s a list, then that list will be ‘eval’ed.  In any case, if this
>>> returns a non-‘nil’ value, then the style is said to “match”.
>>>
>>> See “If the ‘match’ is a function symbol”.
>>
>> Right, that's pretty much what I was saying.
>
> Probably, I have misunderstood this,
>
>>>> I don't think so: posting styles only work when replying to a message in
>>>> a particular group, or composing a new message "from" a group using "C-u
>>>> m" or "C-u a" while point is on that particular group.
>
> Do you mean that when we are in group buffer and press just the ‘m’ or
> ‘a’ then the posting styles won’t be consulted? Or that we are always in
> one or the other group context. On my installation, the default posting
> style ((".*") ...) is always taken into account.

My experience is that if you don't give a prefix argument to "m" or "a"
then your posting styles aren't taken into account. But it makes perfect
sense that ".*" would still take effect (it matches the empty string,
after all). I don't have a catch-all like that in my `gnus-posting-styles'.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[True]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> My experience is that if you don't give a prefix argument to "m" or "a"
> then your posting styles aren't taken into account. But it makes perfect
> sense that ".*" would still take effect (it matches the empty string,
> after all). I don't have a catch-all like that in my `gnus-posting-styles'.

I just tried this without any prefix argument to ‘m’ and ‘a’:

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(setq gnus-posting-styles
      '((".*"
         (name "Pankaj Jangid")
	 (address "pankaj.jangid@qmail.com"))
	((lambda () t)
	 (name "True")
	 (address "true@example.com"))))
#+end_src

It works. It picked the "true@example.com" address.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Gregor Zattler]

Hi Michael,
* Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> [20. Dez. 2020]:
> My question: Is it possible to setup the message header of a message to
> person A so that a person B is CC'd, and to specify something in the
> Reply-To header so that when A responds, the message is send to me and
> also automatically CC'd to B again?  Or can this be forced in some other
> way?

I don't think so.

> I ask because some people's MUAs seem to silently drop the CC'd address
> and those people then fall out of the discussion.

you are sure they do reply "to all" or do a "group reply" instead of a
reply to sender (only)?  In the end it's the users chice.


Ciao, Gregor
--
 -... --- .-. . -.. ..--.. ...-.-

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

True <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> My experience is that if you don't give a prefix argument to "m" or "a"
>> then your posting styles aren't taken into account. But it makes perfect
>> sense that ".*" would still take effect (it matches the empty string,
>> after all). I don't have a catch-all like that in my `gnus-posting-styles'.
>
> I just tried this without any prefix argument to ‘m’ and ‘a’:
>
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp
> (setq gnus-posting-styles
>       '((".*"
>          (name "Pankaj Jangid")
> 	 (address "pankaj.jangid@qmail.com"))
> 	((lambda () t)
> 	 (name "True")
> 	 (address "true@example.com"))))
> #+end_src
>
> It works. It picked the "true@example.com" address.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said "posting styles aren't taken into account",
that isn't accurate; what happens is that the group name under point is
only fed to posting styles with a prefix arg. The posting styles are indeed
consulted no matter what, sorry about that. 

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Pankaj Jangid]

Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> writes:

> Is there an alternative solution to this problem, "Email Groups" or
> something like that?  (No, we don't want to use a messenger instead)

Only guaranteed solution is that everybody a memberber of a group and
the From and To (both) the headers are pointing to the group email
address in each message.

I guess this you need to setup yourself somewhere. I am not aware of a
hosted solution for this.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Michael Heerdegen]

Gregor Zattler <telegraph@gmx.net> writes:

> you are sure they do reply "to all" or do a "group reply" instead of a
> reply to sender (only)?

I guess they don't.  I haven't used anything but Gnus for a long time
(and I configured it to use some reasonable dwim behavior) so I wasn't
very aware of the situation.  If they don't "reply to all" seems I can't
do much on my side except appeals.

Michael.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Michael Heerdegen wrote:

> I guess they don't. I haven't used anything but Gnus for
> a long time (and I configured it to use some reasonable dwim
> behavior) so I wasn't very aware of the situation. If they
> don't "reply to all" seems I can't do much on my side
> except appeals.

Indeed, that's what I said al along :)

And to tell the truth, my experience is, rely on anyone else
for even the smallest thing, it never works.

So to not contribute to this sad (almost) fact of life, on the
flip side of things, whenever someone asks me for anything, no
matter how little, I try to carry it out like I'm a spaceship
cadet with the Admiral himself having just barked orders
at me.

This is the attitude or stipulated self-policy of course,
reality something else, sometimes :(

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Jean Louis]

* Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> [2020-12-23 06:48]:
> Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> writes:
> 
> > Is there an alternative solution to this problem, "Email Groups" or
> > something like that?  (No, we don't want to use a messenger instead)
> 
> Only guaranteed solution is that everybody a memberber of a group and
> the From and To (both) the headers are pointing to the group email
> address in each message.
> 
> I guess this you need to setup yourself somewhere. I am not aware of a
> hosted solution for this.

There is solution.

Example in `mutt' email client https://www.mutt.org is that I may
specify which email addresses are mailing list addresses and then I
may use the L key for list-reply as it will know how to reply to the
list.

And if I set $followup_to variable, it will add the header
Mail-Followup-To: and you may read about that header:
https://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html

From mutt manual:

*3.97. followup_to
 
    Type: boolean
    Default: yes
 
    Controls whether or not the "Mail-Followup-To:" header field is
    generated when sending mail. When set, Mutt will generate this field
    when you are replying to a known mailing list, specified with the
    "[2031]subscribe" or "[2032]lists" commands.
 
    This field has two purposes. First, preventing you from receiving
    duplicate copies of replies to messages which you send to mailing
    lists, and second, ensuring that you do get a reply separately for any
    messages sent to known lists to which you are not subscribed.
 
    The header will contain only the list's address for subscribed lists,
    and both the list address and your own email address for unsubscribed
    lists. Without this header, a group reply to your message sent to a
    subscribed list will be sent to both the list and your address,
    resulting in two copies of the same email for you.
 

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Jean Louis]

* Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> [2020-12-23 06:48]:
> Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> writes:
> 
> > Is there an alternative solution to this problem, "Email Groups" or
> > something like that?  (No, we don't want to use a messenger instead)
> 
> Only guaranteed solution is that everybody a memberber of a group and
> the From and To (both) the headers are pointing to the group email
> address in each message.
> 
> I guess this you need to setup yourself somewhere. I am not aware of a
> hosted solution for this.

In this email I am answering Pankaj Jangid had Mail-Followup-To header
meaning the mail client should answer to the list as he is anyway
reading it.

By using list-reply Cc is then not used for Pankaj.

Jean

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Jean Louis]

* Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> [2020-12-23 08:18]:
> Gregor Zattler <telegraph@gmx.net> writes:
> 
> > you are sure they do reply "to all" or do a "group reply" instead of a
> > reply to sender (only)?
> 
> I guess they don't.  I haven't used anything but Gnus for a long time
> (and I configured it to use some reasonable dwim behavior) so I wasn't
> very aware of the situation.  If they don't "reply to all" seems I can't
> do much on my side except appeals.

You can do to a degree, setup Mail-Followup-To header in your emails
to the mailing lists where you are subscribed to, and then list reply
feature in email clients will or should honor it. You would get Cc if
you would not have that header like Pankaj.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Michael Heerdegen]

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> You can do to a degree, setup Mail-Followup-To header in your emails
> to the mailing lists where you are subscribed to, and then list reply
> feature in email clients will or should honor it. You would get Cc if
> you would not have that header like Pankaj.

You answered to me, Michael.  My original question involved a dog
school, but no mailing lists.

My case is a private conversation between me and the dog school, and a
third person I want to CC (in some sense of receiving at least) all
messages of the conversation (the third person is not the dog).

Would you recommend Mail-Followup-To in this case, too?  Can I specify
multiple addresses there?

TIA,

Michael.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Teemu Likonen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1540 bytes --]

* 2020-12-23 08:38:13+0100, Michael Heerdegen wrote:

> My case is a private conversation between me and the dog school, and a
> third person I want to CC (in some sense of receiving at least) all
> messages of the conversation (the third person is not the dog).
>
> Would you recommend Mail-Followup-To in this case, too? Can I specify
> multiple addresses there?

Header Mail-Followup-To is not in email RFC 5322 (nor older 2822). It is
is supported by some free software hacker email clients but user can't
rely on it. It can be some convenience at some situations, at best.

Widely supported features are:

  - Reply to sender: Reply message will be sent to the address in the
    original message's "From" or (if present) "Reply-To" header.
    "Reply-To" can have several addresses but it is just a suggestion
    where replies be sent. No person or email client program is required
    to honour "Reply-To".

  - Reply to all: Reply message will be send to the original sender (see
    above) and all addresses in the original message's "To" and "Cc"
    headers.

Those two options work reliably. If we wish to have an email
conversation between several people we need to include all participants
in our own messages and probably need to remind other people to choose
"reply to all" option. That is pretty much all we can do. Other fancier
features may work in some hacker communities.

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 4E1055DC84E9DFF613D78557719D69D324539450

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 251 bytes --]

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Jean Louis]

* Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> [2020-12-23 10:39]:
> Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:
> 
> > You can do to a degree, setup Mail-Followup-To header in your emails
> > to the mailing lists where you are subscribed to, and then list reply
> > feature in email clients will or should honor it. You would get Cc if
> > you would not have that header like Pankaj.
> 
> You answered to me, Michael.  My original question involved a dog
> school, but no mailing lists.
> 
> My case is a private conversation between me and the dog school, and a
> third person I want to CC (in some sense of receiving at least) all
> messages of the conversation (the third person is not the dog).
> 
> Would you recommend Mail-Followup-To in this case, too?  Can I specify
> multiple addresses there?

All I can say is I like dogs and I had many of them.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Jean Louis]

* Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> [2020-12-23 11:15]:
> * 2020-12-23 08:38:13+0100, Michael Heerdegen wrote:
> 
> > My case is a private conversation between me and the dog school, and a
> > third person I want to CC (in some sense of receiving at least) all
> > messages of the conversation (the third person is not the dog).
> >
> > Would you recommend Mail-Followup-To in this case, too? Can I specify
> > multiple addresses there?
> 
> Header Mail-Followup-To is not in email RFC 5322 (nor older 2822). It is
> is supported by some free software hacker email clients but user can't
> rely on it. It can be some convenience at some situations, at best.

It does not matter, you can adopt it right away to minimize some
problems with the hand editing. What I wish to say, we do not need a
"standard" to make it little easier for others. The Mail-Followup-To
is just making it little easier to avoid Cc-ing people who need not be
Cc-ed or to find out the mailing list address.

Person could as well do it by hand.

I see my habbit was bad to use group reply, from now on I will use
list reply, and honor other people's Mail-Followup-To header. It is
kind to do so.

>     "Reply-To" can have several addresses but it is just a suggestion
>     where replies be sent. No person or email client program is required
>     to honour "Reply-To".

Sure, good thing to switch conversation from one email address to
other, but correspondent may not honor it, so I do it for as long as
necessary or even tell to person to answer me on different email address.

>   - Reply to all: Reply message will be send to the original sender (see
>     above) and all addresses in the original message's "To" and "Cc"
>     headers.

That is what I was using, but that is not quite correct in mailing
lists. From now on I will use list reply that recognizes the mailing
list as I configured it, and I reply to the list, not to sender.

> Those two options work reliably.

Those options are settable by every email user if they want it. People
do not know how maybe, but email has headers, and back in time headers
were edited by users. Today they can still be edited.

> If we wish to have an email conversation between several people we
> need to include all participants in our own messages and probably
> need to remind other people to choose "reply to all" option. That is
> pretty much all we can do. Other fancier features may work in some
> hacker communities.

We are hacker community here.

Please see settings for Thunderbird for Mail-Followup-To:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Help_Documentation:Mail-Followup-To_and_Mail-Reply-To

In message mode, there is also Follow-up header:
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Header-Editing.html

so it means it can be also customized and provided.

Also search here for "followup":
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/message.html

Quote:

The message-use-followup-to variable says what to do about Followup-To
headers. If it is use, always use the value. If it is ask (which is
the default), ask whether to use the value. If it is t, use the value
unless it is ‘poster’. If it is nil, don’t use the value.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Teemu Likonen]

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* 2020-12-23 13:43:04+0300, Jean Louis wrote:

> We are hacker community here.

Probably yes but the original question is about something else.

If one is sending a message to a random (non-hacker) person one just
can't rely on special hacker client features like "Mail-Followup-To" or
"reply to list". Those things don't exist outside our bubble. There are
only "reply to sender" and "reply to all".

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
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Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Jean Louis]

* Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> [2020-12-23 14:11]:
> * 2020-12-23 13:43:04+0300, Jean Louis wrote:
> If one is sending a message to a random (non-hacker) person one just
> can't rely on special hacker client features like "Mail-Followup-To" or
> "reply to list". Those things don't exist outside our bubble. There are
> only "reply to sender" and "reply to all".

Sorry, but is not like that. Those things do exist in our bubble which
is named Emacs. Mail headers or message fields are used by users in
the settings of email, there is nothing so complicated to say it is
"hacker client" feature as it is not. Just as you define your From
email address you may also define mailing list email addresses that
your email client recognizes such mailing lists and inserts
Mail-Followup-To -- so it is just about settings.

It is already built into Emacs and is nothing special or hacker feature.

/package/text/emacs/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp
$ zgrep -i mail-followup-to *
ldefs-boot.el:         \\[mail-mail-followup-to] move to Mail-Followup-To:
ldefs-boot.el:The variable is used to trigger insertion of the \"Mail-Followup-To\"
loaddefs.el:         \\[mail-mail-followup-to] move to Mail-Followup-To:
loaddefs.el:The variable is used to trigger insertion of the \"Mail-Followup-To\"

and it is in Gnus, message-mode, and in mml-mode or MIME meta language
mode.

message-use-mail-followup-to is a variable defined in ‘message.el’.
Its value is ‘use’

  You can customize this variable.
  This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
  version 22.1 of Emacs.

Documentation:
Specifies what to do with Mail-Followup-To header.
If nil, always ignore the header.  If it is the symbol ‘ask’, always
query the user whether to use the value.  If it is the symbol ‘use’,
always use the value.

There are other variables and settings related to Mail-Followup-To


Mail-Followup-To is related to mailing list and how recipient answers
to the user who has set the Mail-Followup-To.

So if user does set Mail-Followup-To your email client should, if
compliant to it, honor the request and not answer to the author of the
message but extract mailing list address from anywhere like To or Cc
fields and use the mailing list address that is specified in the
Mail-Followup-To

That is long time already implemented in many software.

Look:
https://www.leptonite.org/mft/software.html

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Teemu Likonen]

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* 2020-12-23 14:49:22+0300, Jean Louis wrote:

> * Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> [2020-12-23 14:11]:
>> If one is sending a message to a random (non-hacker) person one just
>> can't rely on special hacker client features like "Mail-Followup-To"
>> or "reply to list". Those things don't exist outside our bubble.
>> There are only "reply to sender" and "reply to all".
>
> Sorry, but is not like that. Those things do exist in our bubble which
> is named Emacs. 

You talk too much beside the point. Do you think that "Mail-Followup-To"
headers will actually work in original poster's dog school community?

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
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Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Pankaj Jangid]

Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> writes:

>>> If one is sending a message to a random (non-hacker) person one just
>>> can't rely on special hacker client features like "Mail-Followup-To"
>>> or "reply to list". Those things don't exist outside our bubble.
>>> There are only "reply to sender" and "reply to all".
>>
>> Sorry, but is not like that. Those things do exist in our bubble which
>> is named Emacs. 
>
> You talk too much beside the point. Do you think that "Mail-Followup-To"
> headers will actually work in original poster's dog school community?

Calm down, friend. :-)

MFT may or may not work in OP’s case. Sames as Reply-To. It all depends
on the sender’s MUA and her exact action that she used to reply.

Re: Reply-To -> CC?

[Michael Heerdegen]

Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> writes:

> Widely supported features are:
>
>   - Reply to sender: Reply message will be sent to the address in the
>     original message's "From" or (if present) "Reply-To" header.
>     "Reply-To" can have several addresses but it is just a suggestion
>     where replies be sent. No person or email client program is required
>     to honour "Reply-To".
>   - [...]

Thanks for these clear words.  I'll try to use "Reply-To" with multiple
addresses in my next message, and - lets see what happens!

Regards,

Michael.