From: Naoya Yamashita <conao3@gmail.com>
To: johnw@gnu.org
Cc: caiohcs0@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com,
monnier@iro.umontreal.ca
Subject: Re: Include leaf in Emacs distribution
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 14:29:53 +0900 (JST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20201116.142953.1427155279543531263.conao3@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m24kmkaeux.fsf@newartisans.com>
Long time no see, sorry I was very busy recentry.
An important point was made in john's email. I want to summarize
it, but please point out if it's different than intended.
- Both use-package and leaf are declarative macros, which
translate into appropriate Lisp code
- The point is made that use-package is large and complex, but
this is only natural and universal truism if any package
addresses the issues raised by a large user base for several
years.
- According to the code count, the results of the rewrite project
is not significant, and I'm not sure if the amount of reduction
in such a small project justifies a near-but-not-quite rewrite.
- use-package is fully modular and allows users to add keywords
easily.
- use-package is used in spacemacs and has proven its modularity
to be useful.
- The emacs-devel doesn't care about the implementation, it cares
about the interface.
---
I agree with you overall, with conditions.
For example, the last point about focusing on the interface
rather than the implementation is that I think "adding keywords"
is part of the interface provided to the user, and I think the
leaf provides it in a more intuitive and direct way than the
use-package.
Also, getting back to the DSL of the use-package, I disagreed
with the following points when I created leaf.
- use-package without keywords is expanded to require
- Enabled even if :disabled is set to nil
- That :custom receives a list instead of a dot pair
- Complete a symbol name that has an incomplete :hook.
(Users won't be able to do definition jumps, and also, what
happens if there is a hook that doesn't end in -hook?)
- that :load-path only supports paths relative to .emacs.d
- In :bind, the syntax for binding to a local keymap is not well
thought out, assigning it to a local keymap is difficult to
understand, and it is incompatible with Elisp indentation.
These are difficult to solve on the use-package, because there
are literally thousands of users of the use-package, and even the
disruptive changes in use-package-3.0 will have an immeasurable
impact.
What do you think? Do you think we can fix a thought or some
grammatical discrepancy that was appropriate a long time ago with
a use-package?
(When you say yes, I'm willing to help. The question is, can the
user bear this pain?)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-11-16 5:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-10-08 1:37 Include leaf in Emacs distribution Naoya Yamashita
2020-10-08 9:00 ` Ergus
2020-10-08 9:22 ` Naoya Yamashita
2020-10-10 10:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 5:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-11 8:39 ` Naoya Yamashita
2020-10-11 9:52 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-11 16:50 ` Naoya Yamashita
2020-10-11 17:12 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-12 2:10 ` Naoya Yamashita
2020-10-12 20:23 ` Ergus via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-11 17:02 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-11 16:51 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-12 20:53 ` Mingde (Matthew) Zeng
2020-10-11 17:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-12 1:35 ` Naoya Yamashita
2020-10-12 22:13 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-12 22:19 ` Qiantan Hong
2020-10-12 22:39 ` Caio Henrique
2020-10-13 13:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-13 14:14 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-13 14:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-13 15:29 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-18 9:32 ` Phil Sainty
2020-10-13 15:25 ` Caio Henrique
2020-10-23 2:37 ` Naoya Yamashita
2020-10-23 3:41 ` John Wiegley
2020-10-23 14:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-23 15:53 ` Naoya Yamashita
2020-10-23 16:46 ` Warnings in init files (was: Include leaf in Emacs distribution) Stefan Monnier
2020-10-23 18:11 ` Include leaf in Emacs distribution T.V Raman
2020-10-23 18:41 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-23 20:04 ` John Wiegley
2020-11-16 5:29 ` Naoya Yamashita [this message]
2020-11-17 0:39 ` John Wiegley
2020-11-20 11:04 ` Naoya Yamashita
2020-11-20 11:29 ` Pankaj Jangid
2020-11-20 15:44 ` T.V Raman
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