From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 23:15:47 +0300 Message-ID: <20201016201547.GP11061@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <20201016130235.06218dae@argon> <20201016142436.187b8210@argon> <20201016152523.6fdfef65@argon> <6142a27f-c53b-35bf-1038-5f047395e868@yandex.ru> <20201016204531.77fab05b@argon> <20201016190846.GI11061@protected.rcdrun.com> <70ea157a-967c-4145-9dc7-1cfc215ad9a0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4625"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) Cc: Marcel Ventosa , Dmitry Gutov , Richard Stallman , Thibaut Verron , emacs-devel To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 16 22:18:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kTWB3-00017R-LK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 22:18:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36460 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTWB2-0005vP-NU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 16:18:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48116) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTW8q-0004ag-Sq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 16:15:57 -0400 Original-Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:60523) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTW8n-0006VA-Ok; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 16:15:56 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.50]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002A0B37.000000005F89FF76.0000711A; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 20:15:50 +0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <70ea157a-967c-4145-9dc7-1cfc215ad9a0@default> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/16 12:33:49 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257871 Archived-At: * Drew Adams [2020-10-16 22:48]: > > and it is software commodity as well. > > No, not really. A commodity is something that's > produced for sale. Emacs have been sold and can be sold today, thus it is commodity by definition. > And a common connation of "commodity" is something > that is run-of-the-mill, as opposed to specially > produced (even if for sale). > > > It has been sold for money in past through GNU > > project, which is totally alright, and is probably > > sold even today, I just don't know where. > > GNU Emacs is not produced for sale, and it's not, > in general, sold. Generally, it's not a commodity. > > If someone sells GNU Emacs then yes, in that case > it could be said to be a commodity. > > But as a general characterization that's not true: > Emacs is not produced for sale. That's not why > it's produced, and selling it is not typical. Read: https://www.gnu.org/bulletins/bull24.html If it is typical or not, it was sold and can be sold any time now, there is no problem selling it, so it is still commodity. > In particular, because in its usual form it's also provided for free > (no sale). If someone sells it, they likely sell some specialized > version of it, or they sell something else along with it, such as > support services. Commodity is if traded, so you say, you cannot possibly know who sold it and how many times, and how. So it is impossible to say "it is not commodity" as "it is not sold" as you cannot oversee the planet. In fact it is sold on many GNU/Linux distributions, it is bundled in the GNU/Linux operating systems and sold through commercial distributions, including sold as part of pre-installed systems. When a customer purchases notebook with Windows, customer is in the same time indirectly getting the commodity named Windows, even though did not get any receipt for Windows, but for the notebook (depending of the shop and country). That does not make Windows less commodity in its term. GNU Emacs is pre-installed on many computers, and such installation require some time, effort, money spent for employees, DVDs, Internet, very similar to installation of proprietary software. Customer need not pay directly for the GNU/Linux distribution, but is paying indirectly.