From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcel Ventosa Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:02:35 +0700 Message-ID: <20201016130235.06218dae@argon> References: <4a1188f8-9864-54c0-ae6f-5f32102d9757@gmx.com> <20201011073553.GA6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201011120840.GC2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201011125031.GC6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201012050418.GZ2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201013052736.GE31408@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10386"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: thibaut.verron@gmail.com, Jean Louis , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 16 08:25:42 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kTJBN-0002Zf-Iy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:25:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35002 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTJBM-0004vF-Ml for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 02:25:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45412) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTIpf-0008RZ-EO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 02:03:15 -0400 Original-Received: from aibo.runbox.com ([91.220.196.211]:37892) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTIpc-00088P-8c; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 02:03:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=runbox.com; s=selector1; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version: References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date; bh=CJKvgJrSfIEW3B25mRtjEvTmf0Z+Bw6Weqi9jYp38lI=; b=dmZAeoGEvCsu5TVmyiZY+MJyiO cqQ1mfuLOGQm2dF1DC0xFsdjWsCKWP4Fou9QMetItkLnQ1IlNmsFFSZrvAv47252kqSSk1DooTXd1 oA4bgCZdRtIYW+nlF6Sj3zF3lv+cF9bO8N1ZU8Pb+Y9kuNQzZ7CGWtsx6eGQOzjPJBXje341Q5XuM 2xXHHjNP905t/kRJjEMQeHbjaAutSlcIjDMfXPmiw69i+r9oJZ2YP2JsvUlwlTjY8vVoH938gtJ33 tWZKnhBTWJu2ptLmvbBfIfRZNp0wh/tq5/BeYhXU/cChYTRlSbkZXNqxrOhDaxBeY3ZdO2VtUssam AS364leA==; Original-Received: from [10.9.9.72] (helo=submission01.runbox) by mailtransmit02.runbox with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kTIpY-0003g2-Lk; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:03:08 +0200 Original-Received: by submission01.runbox with esmtpsa [Authenticated alias (585453)] (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) id 1kTIpL-0005mM-0x; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:02:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.7 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=91.220.196.211; envelope-from=mve1@runbox.com; helo=aibo.runbox.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/16 02:03:09 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -24 X-Spam_score: -2.5 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 02:24:32 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257775 Archived-At: On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 23:59:07 -0400 Richard Stallman wrote: > I hope that only a minority of Emacs users know about MELPA, and I'd > rather not inform the rest about it. But if something is going to > inform them anyway, it is better to do it with a denunciation. I've been using Emacs (and MELPA) for the best part of a decade and knew nothing about this! I'm concerned to use only free software and actively avoid proprietary software, so this is a bit of a shock. Is there anywhere I can read more about this issue? I think this illustrates well why any initiative related with GNU (even by association) should avoid mentioning proprietary software without a clear warning and should, in fact, do its utmost to educate users about free software. I've used Trisquel, Parabola and Replicant for many years, and in all of those cases, installing proprietary software is purposely made difficult (For example, using a `your-freedom' package in Parabola. It makes sense to force a user to actively remove `your-freedom' if he or she wants to install a proprietary program; difficult to do so by mistake. In fact, I would go the extra mile and say Emacs should expressly warn users over the dangers of installing proprietary software from unofficial repositories (by the way, I always just assumed MELPA was somehow official and related to ELPA, because its name is so similar to ELPA). This survey could provide a good opportunity for such information/education. Over the years, as I worked on my emacs configuration, I read many other confiruations, but none (that I recall) gave any warnings about MELPA, so I never thought twice about it. Any other caveats regarding unwittingly running proprietary software inside of Emacs? Sorry to derail the conversation. Marcel