From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 23:26:18 +0300 Message-ID: <20201011202618.GT2923@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <4a1188f8-9864-54c0-ae6f-5f32102d9757@gmx.com> <20201011073553.GA6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201011120840.GC2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201011125031.GC6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201011171508.GM2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201011183451.GO2923@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25492"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) Cc: Adrien Brochard , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel To: Thibaut Verron Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 11 22:28:12 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kRhwy-0006Wp-LX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 22:28:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41438 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRhwx-00059b-OB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 16:28:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55826) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRhwT-0004kO-2H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 16:27:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [95.85.24.50] (port=53115 helo=static.rcdrun.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRhwR-0004W6-0B; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 16:27:40 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.35]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002A0B38.000000005F836AB7.00006CAF; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 20:27:35 +0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 95.85.24.50 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/11 13:16:16 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: 4 X-Spam_score: 0.4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257411 Archived-At: * Thibaut Verron [2020-10-11 22:16]: > > I can perfectly use http://elpa.gnu.org through Emacs > > > > I cannot at all use https://melpa.org through Emacs, it is > > impossible. It is common sense not to design sites in such stunned way > > (sorry I was looking for synonyms of "stupid" not to be too bold). > > It seems reasonable to me that a list that changes every now and then > (Elpa) is easier to serve statically than a list which is updated > several times a day (Melpa). What can be generated online, it can be generated statically, it is matter of seconds. Thus I am not underestimating the webmaster of MELPA. He did not want it in 2016, he does not want it now. There is no "discussion" on the bug report, he closed the bug, finished. It does not seem to be user friendly. There is nothing interactive on MELPA to be served dynamically, there is no user input other than clicking, there are no interactions. I do not underestimate programmers and their intelligence. If MELPA would be easily browsable, it would be easily duplicated as a website. > But if the list of GNU Elpa is generated automatically, maybe the > code to do that can be useful to Melpa. Of course it can. For now it seem trivial, and can be done through Emacs Lisp. > > Website of MELPA is ridiculous. If it promotes Emacs, it should be > > accessible through Emacs. And now we discuss what Emacs users want, > > example me, I don't want to be pushed around. > > Or maybe Emacs should have a web browser which can run (free) > javascript. But why only javascript, maybe Emacs should have Emacs Lisp instead of Javascript, that way we could run programs on Emacs by installing them straight from websites without knowing what is going to happen, within some safe environment so that it does not affect the system. So far I know, any script could be included in web pages, it all depends of plugins to browsers, I remember Perl could be included in the web pages, and other programming languages, why not Emacs Lisp then. > I don't think so, for obvious security reasons, but then again I > don't expect to be able to access all emacs-related websites from > within Emacs. That's what I am talking about, it should be accessible through Emacs. > And, again, Melpa is accessible through Emacs: the entire content of > the website is served on an API which is fully supported by Emacs > (list-packages). > > > This site requires JavaScript to function. > > At least that's pretty explicit. And how that can be good, we speak of Emacs, not of whatever else. People do use Internet through Emacs. > > JavaScript license information > > And they went through the trouble of using only free javascript for > the website (except for the, admittedly, unnecessary twitter feed and > analytics, which a lot of users will block with their adblocker or > LibreJS). Which makes the MELPA website non-free website, not recommended for freedom lovers.