From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:01:18 +0300 Message-ID: <20200926160118.GR1349@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <875z8ortot.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org> <8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com> <83d02re2uk.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20754"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) Cc: Gregory Heytings , Eli Zaretskii , Yuan Fu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Elias =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=A5rtenson?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 26 18:06:03 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kMCi1-0005Em-NI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 18:06:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53624 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMCi0-0003qt-J3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 12:06:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43938) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMCeg-0008Ex-1g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 12:02:34 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:49889) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMCed-0003xC-S1; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 12:02:33 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.40.117]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000081F4E.000000005F6F6613.00006C19; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 09:02:27 -0700 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/26 12:02:28 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256473 Archived-At: * Elias Mårtenson [2020-09-26 12:17]: > On Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 18:36 Gregory Heytings via Emacs development > discussions., wrote: > > > > > "Not now" would not do anything, so the initial greeting would be executed > > again the next time Emacs is started. And "Don't show this again" would > > create an empty ~/.emacs / ~/.emacs.d/init.el, so the initial greeting > > would not be executed again. > > > > At the risk of adding to the bikeshedding, may I ask that if you click on > "don't display again", the UI displays a brief explanation that it created > the file and where it is? > > It's a pet peeve of mine because in many applications I have selected such > options accidentally and then had no way to find out how to get back to the > original state. That could maybe be solved by turning the imaginary help-me-return-to-original-state-mode that could log various messages and show hints to the user in the minibar, just as the Midnight Commander file manager is showing it to users. If such mode would be turned on, it would more clearly then the message log, inform the user which file was saved and where, and how to get to the file back. if there is some option customized, the imaginary mode could tell to user how to come back to it, or how to revert it, it could include the reference to key bindings as well. Thus it could follow the users in their actions and help them revert back or reference those actions to other actions, making the AI within Emacs, which is anyway what I would expect it of a computer and software, to help me as artificial intelligence to use a computer, not that I need to search for help on Internet. So let us start creating the general beginner-AI-mode that is to help user and guide the user through whatever necessary that user feel better guided. Those C-h functions could be then connected in the flow or workflows. If {C-h k} is pressed, such AI mode could advice the user about other referenced keys that are related to the one that user asked for, it could show references. For now {C-h k} is showing what the key does and it points it to the Lisp file. But if the kez is speaking about the end of buffer, that could all be said in a nicer way, for beginners, without Lisp file, and various complications, and it could point out hyperlinks to begin of file key and various other keys relevant to end of buffer key. If user turns on option to remove the menu, from the Option menu, then the Beginner's AI mode would clearly inform the user that F10 may be pressed to come back to Menu again or {M-x toggle-menu-bar-mode-from-frame} would bring it back. Not that the user get stuck if the menu bar is toggled off. espeak or other speech engine could be, should be implemented in the Beginner's AI Mode, and such would interact with the user in similar fashion as phone interactive menus interact with callers. User could ask the Beginner's AI or Hal, call it as you wish, by telling "Hello Hal" or pressing a key. Then Hal would respond: How may I help you master? (delete "master" for political correctness) Then user would say "menu" or something like that, and Hal could ask if menu bar should be toggled on, or it would open the menu. Or it could find relevant subjects related to "deleting a line". Or it could ask the user menu of options to choose from, user could speak to the Hal and get things done in easy manner. Jean