From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 14:59:38 +0200 Message-ID: <20200922125938.oxrh5iqoatfshcnv@Ergus> References: <83sgbd1qsz.fsf@gnu.org> <20200921171958.GB3551@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40259"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 22 15:02:35 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kKhwI-000AM5-MN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 15:02:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42794 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKhwH-000713-9Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 09:02:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52198) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKhtl-0005OV-7Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 08:59:57 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic304-9.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.128.32]:41824) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKhtf-000418-GC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 08:59:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1600779588; bh=dOIAaIg2RrtX2Kk5U1+66b+j8rm11jOdGwTTu3KA/Qs=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=dy4Xk06yHBZkWYcqToayia4Bdj+tHqw+cJRA+7a0wEvhIJWSiWIN81DAi3mXk98jJTER0dbNU18i0n3MUb+Qa/T+rraYZ2QQS3kkMd0hD+jjepa7mmh2v4g4BH2Fy6WB13g/geTzb8nLDpj/6GKNMuahi0z/l/8fiuuW7whgFz0Ao8exJTLl9Gv1NS6K33OUwWs+nMwRQDbXAhnqf5a3Hul03AR3aYMDf0V6urp5yfZDuLXIoyfb+2oAvGxBZLuT49UND3l8498EUZHPBkDLuEsk3YJ5VwcnP07+TWTARJ1ada3CrlRt6qK2XUxUnu/SeEEZyeI3KkIULCEHZo/G3A== X-YMail-OSG: G0b_62EVM1kEHJuD_cqvqvIduCaEutBINBgVLvaxgiZ27vDPxQ5lYto7lKBcCJS jyC.8wYeJ.ZGpT0XPJPsjJaSurLlCOVE7dUf8IRxNG1eYw5SkVmmoDpDlDyUl6pkTuB6uFL.MP1p GgJY5SDEI0kZn4Dc3.ONHbGcvsZDe6.Ib4DJSBXzYLbL8N8uyWVsmkcX62oJOhkHmv2aD7kUbb0P Zdzx7jiNWT9Dwurum_cMUjpC9bfsC0_SeONMoQCOgLJGyu4bxw5XgMZ5VYrJCRsQR1bc_nv7Ld8l h2qme02doCpRVgkU.HSjrpV84ooh3iv4CvF9qDoGRGs6gl5hafAXPZFpKF3A5ehYPrLhS5mCKiiz gj7EQ6ks0G.EouhFOBOL9YUQEKFoEQTHHv.wZyI443VHOt.ozlAwymCJke5dNlCc_u7KMnuQ8KRD fsoWlj0G9YokWstH9ZbiFbo8jyRbbLGnLf1Il5emS7tlXO7aAemLgnOQvCF7q3borKKogrCt53uo 1PKMc4DbFVDMlluoeYXZSfW6IJdm9p40kWQOq3gLi3NMiLUckNLd6OnvCh5UuY1OqPL1kVwqvt_o BLu_HAAykg4mymFFMik6q38MS4gBeve6Hq15XaDoMUSbv_G8K3d_dIi3pYbZ5EFlm5WPHYEkBU2X G9A0R0uwrocqiaWu4kPf_SQPjoNIOUGxx7OzPadJ07A8voOk4KblUNLVwjekG1Xort3vNiR5ZbRN nEymbuvfzHBBHYQbT2_rpCZyO2dYpGjwjjH3CH45jRPd692.3R_w2P6gP71fIGYkIB24lSu4A_tn fk9oHiBC3JdSAuXASsowhNtmk7SaEG.zlveYdEtJ07 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 12:59:48 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp417.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 39ebb40fe51429f6772ab023b9748fe0; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 12:59:45 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200921171958.GB3551@protected.rcdrun.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.128.32; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic304-9.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/22 07:52:08 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256316 Archived-At: On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 08:19:58PM +0300, Jean Louis wrote: >* Ergus [2020-09-20 03:45]: >> There have been too many years of licences nobody reads and msoffice useless splash. So people now install the programs just pressing next next next accept. >> >> The problem is that 90% of the cases the information there is pretty useless (publicity, license, offers for an account) so most people assume that in our case it will be the same and usually ignores that. > >I am not sure how you come to seach information, as it is very >general. I could present Emacs to various people and see if they have >read the splash screen, and then after 5 or 10 attempts, I could have >statistics, who read what, if they found that there is Tutorial or >not, or what else they remembered and if they have read the splash >page. > >With 100 people in the test, such information would be valuable >statistics. > >Without mass of people tested randomly, it is harder to say that splash >is useless for people because it was maybe useless for one msoffice >user. > >I can speak for myself, as it is hard to speak for others, so I know >that I was reading licenses of proprietary software before 1999, and I >know that I was reading everything that Emacs had to offer, from >splash screen, Tutorials in few languages, and GNU news and anything >else, I did read it, and that is how I got fascinated with the free >software. > So you are probably more the exception than the rule. As you can see nobody these days reads the licenses anymore, not even the tutorials (just give a look to quora questions and reddit) except professionals of course. If they have read the licenses probably they won't be using facebook, WP or any google service or install in their phones so many applications full of publicity and give it access anything including personal contacts and location. They just click yes and want it to be working asap I don't have anything opposed to the splash screen and I don't consider that this kind of users are the main profile emacs should be interested in to attract. I just say that nobody knows what is written in the license or the splash screen. Consider also that most of the people in the world are nor English speakers either. >-- >Thanks, >Jean Louis