From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A modern-mode? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:53:56 +0200 Message-ID: <20200916105356.GD13405@tuxteam.de> References: <20200916094819.GB13405@tuxteam.de> <20200916102001.GC13405@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="llIrKcgUOe3dCx0c" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1291"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: emacs-devel To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 16 12:55:01 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kIV5Z-0000Ex-4A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:55:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43788 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIV5Y-0000mT-7Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 06:55:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40272) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIV4q-0000D4-Py for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 06:54:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:47397) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIV4n-0000T7-4z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 06:54:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date; bh=+V4IN3QFt1xvGrtn/IW0JjP707TGIwDDXbeAQy71u+c=; b=hck7wYnmGRXBOUh59vYThir1AaluwSVVhpaQxOrbFLo6aa2O/5EBPZ63jky5bszobwpwao1KnwDkNkqH+rSFRuQWuoiiXPEw3GS5Xb/sYXoHc8aq9FcRO5+Wjr7/1qEL/A9w3wji9VpFKPOCnIwSk/HhS462c3iu5uJriJEM6LMAoUJsRowKQgHZBt+QGeI7LedZoc+pFJuwtcbDoekcl/yMq4j2veNrdPbd6tF0MDNNBXYuwxpP8U5I1lU296zh7uJLTyZZM7N9RVF9O0wCOt/X7mIxdYdlwWPD6pZue3/9pOBQHNjS2cWquxq3oV2huxgP6gsVH3mxv0ZV8DkTJw==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1kIV4W-0004tn-4N; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:53:56 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/16 02:54:14 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255856 Archived-At: --llIrKcgUOe3dCx0c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:30:18AM +0100, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: > On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:20 AM wrote: >=20 > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:54:43AM +0100, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > Good point: these are opinionated things by nature, so they > > > should be named as themes are, somewhat freely according > > > to the vision of their authors. This also reveals that the > > > thing shouldn't be called a "mode" at all. It should be done > > > with custom-themes and if that proves a limitation, then > > > custom-themes have to be improved, maybe even reinvented. > > > > We can set up our own giant feedback loops, too :-) > > >=20 > Not sure what you mean, I just meant the "custom-themes" > infrastructure should be enough to accommodate enough of > the proposed "modern-mode". Not sure if it is (as I don't use it). Sorry -- was a lame self-reference. I characterised at some point that whatever is currently considered "ergonomic" is but part of a giant feedback loop involving (among many other things, like genuine UI research) big corp's marketing departments. What you wrote offered itself as another kind of feedback loop: opinionated "custom-themes" (or whatever we end up naming that) informing the Emacs core about whatever tech or concepts are necessary to keep the whole ship together. > I think reasonably solutions with a lot of value and relatively > little code are often in front of our eyes. Such was the case > with icomplete being a good basis for fido-mode, which seems > good enough that people are even recommending it. I'm > almost always wary of giants or grand reinventions of things. > For the "base" Emacs experience that is, in their setups people > can use all the ivys, dooms, helms and magits they want. So Emacs has been doing that all along, it seems... And still, this kind of discussions seem necessary and fruitful. Cheers - t --llIrKcgUOe3dCx0c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAl9h7sQACgkQBcgs9XrR2kY+cwCeOS+1zVwoiIf5nIBIsly495+6 2qAAnA0pNxDnwPVi8zbKWFnRz2VxGI0n =Jvpa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --llIrKcgUOe3dCx0c--