Contact data and sync revisited

Contact data and sync revisited

[Russell Adams]

I've been trying to find the best way to manage my contacts. I've dabbled with
org-contact and using an Org file with property drawers, I've dabbled with
BBDB. I've looked at standalone programs.

My key problem is I need a way to access my contacts in Emacs and Mutt, and send
them to my Android phone. Single direction sync is fine.

Using a Nextcloud host, org-caldav, and DAVx5 I have already successfully pushed my
calendar events to my Android phone. This makes it even more important for me to
solve this issue finally.

I've considered the merit of a few options:

 - Use Org-contacts
   - Pro: It's in org! So easy, lets me keep notes and appointment data easily.
   - Cons: Doesn't export at all.

 - BBDB
   - Pro: It's in Emacs natively, with Org integration.
   - Pro: Larger users base than Org-contacts, more software
   - Cons: Exports but requires additional tools to sync

Unfortunately looking at the options keeps coming back to how poor general
support for CardDAV and vcard files is. In particular, the popular vdirsyncer
tool is now looking for a new maintainer, and I had the impression from his list
of grievances he might drop it entirely.

What could be a decent valid solution to this issue?

------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/

Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3

Re: Contact data and sync revisited

[Matthew Lundin]

Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com> writes:

> Unfortunately looking at the options keeps coming back to how poor
> general support for CardDAV and vcard files is. In particular, the
> popular vdirsyncer tool is now looking for a new maintainer, and I had
> the impression from his list of grievances he might drop it entirely.

Yes, I'm hoping vdirsyncer is popular enough that someone will step
forward as maintainer. There's still an official package in Arch Linux,
but I'm not sure how long that will last if the package ultimately
remains unmaintained.

My current syncing solution relies on the following tools:

 - khard (https://github.com/scheibler/khard)
 - vdirsyncer
 - card/caldav server (Radicale)
 - DAVx5 (android app)

I use khardel (an emacs front-end to khard) to create and edit contacts
within emacs:

https://gitlab.petton.fr/DamienCassou/khardel

khardel also has a helper function for selecting and inserting email
addresses: khardel-insert-email

For address completion within emacs, I normally just use notmuch's
built-in auto-completion (which based on indexed addresses of emails
either sent or received). But it's nice to be able to fall back on
khardel and my own contacts collection.

I code small integrations in emacs around khard's command-line
interface. For instance, I pipe khard contacts into an interactive emacs
function that allows me to select a contact/phone number and then send
an sms via kdeconnect-cli.

Best,

Matt

Re: Contact data and sync revisited

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com> writes:

> I've been trying to find the best way to manage my contacts. I've dabbled with
> org-contact and using an Org file with property drawers, I've dabbled with
> BBDB. I've looked at standalone programs.
>
> My key problem is I need a way to access my contacts in Emacs and Mutt, and send
> them to my Android phone. Single direction sync is fine.
>
> Using a Nextcloud host, org-caldav, and DAVx5 I have already successfully pushed my
> calendar events to my Android phone. This makes it even more important for me to
> solve this issue finally.
>
> I've considered the merit of a few options:
>
>  - Use Org-contacts
>    - Pro: It's in org! So easy, lets me keep notes and appointment data easily.
>    - Cons: Doesn't export at all.
>
>  - BBDB
>    - Pro: It's in Emacs natively, with Org integration.
>    - Pro: Larger users base than Org-contacts, more software
>    - Cons: Exports but requires additional tools to sync
>
> Unfortunately looking at the options keeps coming back to how poor general
> support for CardDAV and vcard files is. In particular, the popular vdirsyncer
> tool is now looking for a new maintainer, and I had the impression from his list
> of grievances he might drop it entirely.

This is not yet a working solution, but I'm gradually getting there with
EBDB, a port/rewrite of BBDB. It does vCard export, though not very well
yet. I've also written a library called "vcard", which does parsing of
vcards into Elisp data, but have yet to get off my butt and wire
everything together. The end result will be an EBDB database that uses
the vCard format natively for storage.

Then I was planning on relying on vdirsyncer for CardDAV syncing, and
it's a bummer to hear that it might go unmaintained. I could write a
native CardDAV client using dav.el, but seeing how much fun David
Engster has maintaining org-caldav, I'm not eager to go that route.

If you're interested, you can follow this issue.

https://github.com/girzel/ebdb/issues/4

Yes, it's issue #4, opened in 2016. Don't let that discourage you!

Eric

Re: Contact data and sync revisited

[Bob Newell]

Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com> writes:

> My key problem is I need a way to access my contacts in Emacs and Mutt, and send
> them to my Android phone. Single direction sync is fine.

Aloha,

I've probably mentioned this before in past postings, but
there is a comprehensive solution for Android if you install
the free Termux app, which has packages for emacs and mutt
(although I use gnus), plus rsync and zillions of other
tools. I was able to reproduce 100% of my (text mode) emacs
environment on an Android tablet, an Android phone, and a
Chromebook running an Android subsystem. I use rsync to a
cloud service for two-way sync among eight varied devices (one
at a time, of course).

It takes a seriously serious amount of up-front work and may
not be at all close to what you are seeking, but once it's set
up, it's amazingly effective and productive (at least for me).

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i

- Via GNU/Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB

Re: Contact data and sync revisited

[Russell Adams]

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 07:49:20AM -1000, Bob Newell wrote:
> I was able to reproduce 100% of my (text mode) emacs
> environment on an Android tablet, an Android phone, and a
> Chromebook running an Android subsystem. I use rsync to a
> cloud service for two-way sync among eight varied devices (one
> at a time, of course).

Bob, I can't stand tablets and phones for the lack of a decent keyboard. While I
appreciate the suggestion, it's not one I'm likely to pursue.

I am curious if you integrated local Emacs on Android with the Android Contact
list somehow. ;]

------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/

Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3

Re: Contact data and sync revisited

[rey-coyrehourcq]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3120 bytes --]

Hi,

There is probably something to do using EteSync end-to-end
Cardav/Caldav FOSS program https://www.etesync.com/ : 

- android / ios client
- contacts management
- task management and task.org compatibility : 
https://blog.etesync.com/tasks-org-adds-etesync-support/
- dav bridge / radicale : 
https://blog.etesync.com/desktop-dav-bridge-a-few-improvements-and-a-radicale-dependency-issue/
- gnome support (summer 2020) 

I'm a noob in lisp/elisp but there is probably something to write to
sync org data with client of this awesome FOSS tool.  

Best


Le dimanche 31 mai 2020 à 10:31 -0700, Eric Abrahamsen a écrit :
> Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com> writes:
> 
> > I've been trying to find the best way to manage my contacts. I've
> > dabbled with
> > org-contact and using an Org file with property drawers, I've
> > dabbled with
> > BBDB. I've looked at standalone programs.
> > 
> > My key problem is I need a way to access my contacts in Emacs and
> > Mutt, and send
> > them to my Android phone. Single direction sync is fine.
> > 
> > Using a Nextcloud host, org-caldav, and DAVx5 I have already
> > successfully pushed my
> > calendar events to my Android phone. This makes it even more
> > important for me to
> > solve this issue finally.
> > 
> > I've considered the merit of a few options:
> > 
> >  - Use Org-contacts
> >    - Pro: It's in org! So easy, lets me keep notes and appointment
> > data easily.
> >    - Cons: Doesn't export at all.
> > 
> >  - BBDB
> >    - Pro: It's in Emacs natively, with Org integration.
> >    - Pro: Larger users base than Org-contacts, more software
> >    - Cons: Exports but requires additional tools to sync
> > 
> > Unfortunately looking at the options keeps coming back to how poor
> > general
> > support for CardDAV and vcard files is. In particular, the popular
> > vdirsyncer
> > tool is now looking for a new maintainer, and I had the impression
> > from his list
> > of grievances he might drop it entirely.
> 
> This is not yet a working solution, but I'm gradually getting there
> with
> EBDB, a port/rewrite of BBDB. It does vCard export, though not very
> well
> yet. I've also written a library called "vcard", which does parsing
> of
> vcards into Elisp data, but have yet to get off my butt and wire
> everything together. The end result will be an EBDB database that
> uses
> the vCard format natively for storage.
> 
> Then I was planning on relying on vdirsyncer for CardDAV syncing, and
> it's a bummer to hear that it might go unmaintained. I could write a
> native CardDAV client using dav.el, but seeing how much fun David
> Engster has maintaining org-caldav, I'm not eager to go that route.
> 
> If you're interested, you can follow this issue.
> 
> https://github.com/girzel/ebdb/issues/4
> 
> Yes, it's issue #4, opened in 2016. Don't let that discourage you!
> 
> Eric
> 
-- 


Sébastien Rey-Coyrehourcq
Research Engineer UMR IDEES
02.35.14.69.30

{Stronger security for your email, follow EFF tutorial : 
https://ssd.eff.org/}



[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Contact data and sync revisited

[Russell Adams]

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 10:52:52PM +0200, rey-coyrehourcq wrote:
> There is probably something to do using EteSync end-to-end
> Cardav/Caldav FOSS program https://www.etesync.com/ :

That's very interesting, I hadn't seen that one. I'm not sure I care for their
"sign up" model, but much like Jitsi it appears you can host your own.

To that effect, I'm already running Nextcloud which is my sync target. I'm
already syncing Nextclound Contacts and Calendar to and from my phone with
DAVx5. It work great.

Now I just Org to export and push to Nextcloud (CalDAV and CardDAV). Org-caldav
works fine, I've already set that up for appointments. Now I'm trying to get Org
to work with CardDAV somehow.

So close, yet so far...


------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/

Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3