From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "If you're still seeing problems, please reopen." [Was: bug#25148:] Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 19:25:58 +0000 Message-ID: <20191117192558.GC11551@ACM> References: <20191117113054.49837.qmail@mail.muc.de> <87pnhq7mxg.fsf@gnus.org> <87bltaz9g4.fsf@telefonica.net> <834kz25qp9.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2wexsv1.fsf@telefonica.net> <83sgmm4a08.fsf@gnu.org> <87h832xqxr.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="252680"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 17 20:27:01 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iWQCK-0013cP-Qv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 20:27:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55860 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iWQCJ-0000Qy-Ml for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 14:26:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53585) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iWQBR-0000LD-8x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 14:26:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iWQBQ-0007s2-6N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 14:26:05 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:31727 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iWQBO-0007ri-Re for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 14:26:03 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 53251 invoked by uid 3782); 17 Nov 2019 19:26:00 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4FE150B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.80.183]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 20:25:58 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 14245 invoked by uid 1000); 17 Nov 2019 19:25:58 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87h832xqxr.fsf@telefonica.net> X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 193.149.48.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:242313 Archived-At: Hello, Óscar. On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 20:07:12 +0100, Óscar Fuentes wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> Debbugs is a non-starter for any project that expects interaction with > >> its user base. > > A bug tracker should first and foremost help those who work on > > triaging and fixing bugs. > I disagree with you on this. A user-facing bug tracker must be welcoming > to users, otherwise you will miss many of those bugs. > > I have experience with 3 other issue > > tracking systems, and none of them is significantly better in this > > aspect; some are worse. > Maybe we should consider some of those which are not "significantly > better" at triaging and fixing bugs but are much better at interfacing > with end users and occasional contributors? What could be easier than M-x report-emacs-bug or just sending an email to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org? I run Gentoo, and for many days now a package won't build, and I want to report it as a bug. But I just can't face the hassle of opening Firefox, looking up Gentoo's bugzilla address, logging on to it with a password I've got written down somewhere, filling in numerous fields on a screen, many of which are not relevant (but they're compulsory), then having to return to it in order to respond to responses. It's just too much work. I suppose I'll get around to it some time. That's not to say debbugs is perfect. But for me, it beats bugzilla and other Web browser based trackers handsomely. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).