From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Change terminology to =?utf-8?Q?better?= =?utf-8?B?IGFsaWduIHVzZXJz4oCZ?= experience with modern GUIs Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:44:48 +0200 Message-ID: <20190723104448.GD27308@tuxteam.de> References: <58E90D68-5CE4-425F-BB5F-07533665ADC0@icloud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2Z2K0IlrPCVsbNpk" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="176365"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 23 12:45:10 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hpsI8-000jiV-0O for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:45:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41160 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpsI7-0003m9-1u for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 06:45:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40911) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hpsI2-0003lk-EO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 06:45:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hpsI0-00071p-3f for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 06:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:58582) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hpsHw-0006rF-WF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 06:44:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=JZ/EXq3LDsNa54QPV0z/1csHFuq+R9edpP/mDtJzDkc=; b=TTD2O2hkiQD+UNGkb+ZDtpWUTUlg48LssRqlXT8FwON9i/mFGsekGp0GOfP2Y8rGRSC3c/BY3Z2ggRzvrTWvJGIbME+rc8a+SOTZD9UUz+ByyG6LQNeTqpvMQOrerqTM5mj1mfO3tZXbhF4j/Qu5gdczPU4FzBUqmuVmvnHWZ952uka+lWQMPd2tM5MOdn8Xgsw/JswBBVb9CUZF7I7PBbrchNw0lj0SaNMVK+OJfcGLaDf6D/007nEgc/2zmZeXqFbVWbe4hicH2YQUxt7la3m0ZJwJFDMq7JAyz9h1UfCTJmeshUXdqFFrNg9UeQ9w1uUWB+i31UL3LwhcU81IXQ==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hpsHo-0008Sp-4s for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:44:48 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <58E90D68-5CE4-425F-BB5F-07533665ADC0@icloud.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 5.199.139.25 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:121234 Archived-At: --2Z2K0IlrPCVsbNpk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 03:46:31PM +0900, =EC=A1=B0=EC=84=B1=EB=B9=88 wrote: > Is there any intent or interest in updating the terminology > of Emacs documentation/function names to better align users=E2=80=99 > experience with modern GUIs?=20 Patience, young padovan :-) Emacs has a working and dedicated community. If you just enter through the door and say "Hello, everybody: how about we change all names of things, like, now?"... how do you think people will react? Nevertheless you do have a strong point: the Emacs jargon, evolved over a long time (few software packages in productive usage can look back on thirty years of history) definitely poses a barrier to entry for newcomers. Nobody wants that, thus constructive proposals to change that are, I'm sure, welcome. Change in Emacs is gradual (but still can be radical [1]), this is a thing many of its users appreciate highly (I do, for one: Emacs is one of my main tools, and I can afford to live on the bleeding edge and compile for me the "newest Emacs" every week or so. I wouldn't dare to do that with most other software out there)! So a good strategy, if you're really hot & willing to change things would be to grab the documentation, and perhaps write a companion to the documentation "Glossary" (let's call it "Anti-Glossary" which translates "current" terms into the Emacs terminology. So someone searching for "window", "pane", "cursor", etc. has a chance to hit on the relevant documentation. A next step might be to cross-index those "current" terms with the "traditional" ones. Whether you manage to convince enough people to really change the language is anyone's guess, but you can start some steps into that general direction. P.S: Sorry if this mail comes across as somewhat... condescending. This is not my intention at all! If that's the case, it is more due to my inability to put things shortly and clearly. Sorry for that. Cheers [1] I'd highly recommend reading https://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~monnier/hopl-4-emacs-lisp.pdf It's only about the Lisp part of Emacs but gives an impression on how much has happened over time. -- tom=C3=A1s --2Z2K0IlrPCVsbNpk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAl025R8ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kbnRwCfdOlqwjVbdSKytcB3oxPGZPbn lx4An0r/FexciqX7JAlU4b7e86h2ttBc =6Loa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2Z2K0IlrPCVsbNpk--