From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Alessi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#36717: 25.3; greek.el: deprecated vowel+oxia combinations should be replaced with vowel+tonos counterparts Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:31:22 +0200 Message-ID: <20190719133122.GA9882@robertalessi.net> References: <20190718184700.GA4886@robertalessi.net> <20190718203203.GG4886@robertalessi.net> <83tvbiv7dp.fsf@gnu.org> <20190719085824.GA3263@robertalessi.net> <20190719094226.GA5734@robertalessi.net> <83ef2muqv0.fsf@gnu.org> <83blxquqku.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="156156"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, 36717@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 19 15:32:08 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSzY-000eUu-46 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:32:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45350 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSzW-0000Ed-Tg for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:32:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36927) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSzT-0000EX-Mr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:32:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSzS-00051x-Lo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:32:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:46580) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSzS-00051p-IM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSzS-0002MJ-Cm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:32:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Robert Alessi Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 36717 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 36717-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B36717.15635430897323 (code B ref 36717); Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 36717) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2019 13:31:29 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55401 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSyu-0001ts-JW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:31:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:50434) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSys-0001rf-8l for 36717@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:31:26 -0400 Original-Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B64F41B9411; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:31:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Riseup-User-ID: 1CA95EA926B6DD65EE5D2A64BE903D8D627B25AB2FAD4CF6B1E6489066CFA539 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D7E022001C; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83blxquqku.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:163409 Archived-At: On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 04:00:33PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Bottom line, after reading this thread and related material on the > net, I must say I don't understand what might be wrong with our > current Greek input methods. It sounds like we allow users to type > both characters with tonos and with oxia, and leave it to them to > decide which one(s) they need. I see nothing wrong with that, because > only the user can know what they need. > > Can someone please point out what am I missing? Preferably with > concrete examples of characters and input methods used to type them. > > TIA This is only my opinion, but since I am the one who started this discussion, I must emphasize that the approach described above sounds me right. At first, being unable to get some substitution rules to work in a Greek font using the oxia variants, and without knowing tonos variants existed, I thought that emacs was using deprecated variants after I came across the page of digitalclassicist.org on ``duplicated vowels''. Further reading showed that this page leads to some confusion. As said in an earlier email, tonos and oxia refer to very different systems, and only the latter should be used for classical Greek, even if nowadays there is no visual distinction between the two. If I understand correctly, greek-ibycus4 which I use is exclusively designed for classical Greek input, but emacs also provides other input methods should one wishes to input modern Greek with tonoi. So as far as I can tell, there is nothing to change.