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From: Robert Alessi <alessi@robertalessi.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, 36717@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#36717: 25.3; greek.el: deprecated vowel+oxia combinations should be replaced with vowel+tonos counterparts
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:54:07 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190719095407.GB5734@robertalessi.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83lfwuv05b.fsf@gnu.org>

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:33:52PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > I went through almost all the documents that are listed here:
> > https://unicode.org/versions/ (in reverse chronological order), and
> > couldn't find any statement of Greek oxia being deprecated in favor of
> > tonos, contrary to what is claimed here:
> > https://wiki.digitalclassicist.org/Greek_Unicode_duplicated_vowels
> 
> So the basic claim that started this issue is no longer valid?  IOW,
> this assertion:
> 
>   As of 2016, the latest versions of Unicode (as of 2016) have now
>   formally deprecated and removed the vowel+oxia combinations from the
>   Greek extended range, leaving only the vowel+tonos from the basic Greek
>   and Coptic range.
> 
> is not really accurate?

I would say so, to say the least, but I am still investigating.  What
is sure is that tonos originally does not encode the same as oxia.
The former encodes a stress, while the latter encodes a pitch.  This
is undisputable.  That said, the fact that the Greek government did
decree that tonos shall be the same as oxia (to be taken cautiously, I
am not a specialist of modern Greek) surely introduced a lot of
confusion.

For example, if one makes no distinction between the two, then it
becomes harder to analyse large corpuses with a computer.

> > One question remains—and I wish to express my gratitude to all of you,
> > Robert, Basil and Eli: since assigning vowels with tonos and vowels
> > with oxia to the same code points is clearly unacceptable even if the
> > glyphs may be identical, is there a way to input tonos and vowels with
> > tonos with emacs?  I use greek-ibycus4, but if other input methods
> > can handle these letters, I would consider any change unnecessary.
> 
> "C-x RET 8" would be the immediate answer, IIUC.

Well that is not very friendly...

> But I'm still studying the issue, so maybe I'm missing something.

Just the same on my side.





  reply	other threads:[~2019-07-19  9:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 50+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-07-18  9:03 bug#36717: 25.3; greek.el: deprecated vowel+oxia combinations should be replaced with vowel+tonos counterparts Robert Alessi
2019-07-18 14:54 ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-18 17:32   ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-18 18:06     ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-18 18:47       ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-18 18:57         ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-18 20:14           ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-18 20:32           ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19  6:57             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19  8:27               ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-19  9:09                 ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19 12:49                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19 13:27                   ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-19 14:26                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19 14:41                       ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-19 14:51                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19 14:52                         ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19 15:00                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19 15:14                             ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19 14:45                       ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19  8:58               ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19  9:26                 ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-19  9:42                   ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19  9:49                     ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-19 10:03                       ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19 11:49                         ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-19 13:32                           ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19 12:54                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19 13:00                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19 13:31                           ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19 14:27                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-01-16 13:59                               ` Stefan Kangas
2019-07-19 13:29                         ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-19 13:33                           ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19 12:52                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19  9:33                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19  9:54                   ` Robert Alessi [this message]
2019-07-19 12:55                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-19 13:47                       ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-18 18:19     ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-07-18 20:19       ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-18 20:52         ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-07-18 18:16   ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-07-18 18:47     ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-18 20:27       ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-18 20:23     ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19  9:40     ` Robert Pluim
2019-07-18 18:16 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-07-18 20:29   ` Robert Alessi
2019-07-19 12:40   ` Eli Zaretskii

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