From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Alessi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#36717: 25.3; greek.el: deprecated vowel+oxia combinations should be replaced with vowel+tonos counterparts Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 22:29:35 +0200 Message-ID: <20190718202935.GF4886@robertalessi.net> References: <87zhlbaf5d.fsf@kiddo.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <87lfwv2oot.fsf@tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="162091"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 36717@debbugs.gnu.org To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 19 01:09:09 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFWO-000g4T-TF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 01:09:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41336 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFWN-00036U-Po for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:09:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39709) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFWJ-00032s-R9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:09:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFWI-0003iP-Mb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:09:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:46020) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFWI-0003iH-Ie for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:09:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFWI-0003To-CR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:09:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Robert Alessi Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 23:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 36717 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 36717-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B36717.156349129913273 (code B ref 36717); Thu, 18 Jul 2019 23:09:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 36717) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2019 23:08:19 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54839 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFVb-0003Rw-HL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:08:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:60418) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFVW-0003Ra-Cl for 36717@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 19:08:14 -0400 Original-Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C5CB1A0F20; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:29:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Riseup-User-ID: 8A649CB2CE8E3AD03F9A1C4E90F55A06ECD5484737BE5C88C8F5960D2423DEAF Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED061222344; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87lfwv2oot.fsf@tcd.ie> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:163348 Archived-At: Thank you for these valuable items of information, Basil. I will do some research and report back no later than tomorrow. Robert On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 07:16:34PM +0100, Basil L. Contovounesios wrote: > Robert Alessi writes: > > > As of 2016, the latest versions of Unicode (as of 2016) have now > > formally deprecated and removed the vowel+oxia combinations from the > > Greek extended range, leaving only the vowel+tonos from the basic Greek > > and Coptic range. > > Where is the deprecation documented? What do you mean by "removed"? > AFAIK all of the "deprecated" codepoints are still part of the latest > Unicode standard[1]. > > > As a result of this deprecation, the sixteen characters found in > > greek.el (Quail package for inputting Greek) that use extended > > codepoints should be replaced with those that use basic codepoints. > > I'm not opposed to such a simple search+replace[2], but I'm no expert on > these matters (so please bear with me), and I wonder what effects, if > any, such a change may have. > > AFAICT all occurrences of the "deprecated" codepoints in greek.el appear > in classical Greek input methods, not the modern Greek input methods > greek or greek-postfix. Would users of the classical input methods ever > want to explicitly use the oxia, not tonos, variants? > > What confuses me is that, AIUI, the "deprecated" codepoints should > decompose to their Greek and Coptic counterparts[3]. How does Quail > interplay with Unicode normalisation? > > [1]: https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F00.pdf > [2]: Indeed, I've seen people trip over this discrepancy, but I forgot > to follow up on this: https://emacs.stackexchange.com/a/43927/15748 > [3]: http://www.unicode.org/charts/normalization/ > > > All affected characters can be found here: --> > > https://wiki.digitalclassicist.org/Greek_Unicode_duplicated_vowels#Affected_characters > > > > Although most Unicode Greek fonts display both versions identically, in > > some cases, not using basic codepoints can break advanced features such > > as alternate forms in Greek script. To take an example, if some feature > > is supposed to distinguish between regular and `curly' *beta* (β/ϐ) so > > as to print the `curly' shape if the *beta* is found in medial position, > > the substitution will succeed in βάρβαρος, but fail in λάβρος just > > because of the extended codepoint of ά that is used by `greek.el`. > > How does the use of oxia instead of tonos on the alpha affect the > substitution of the beta? > > Thanks, > > -- > Basil