From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus via help-gnu-emacs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow? Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 15:06:48 +0200 Message-ID: <20190611130647.hbbnjbnpufcqcwpi@Ergus> References: <83ftpecwu1.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516161408.4dov3dwk5h4yoizn@Ergus> <838sv6cmwt.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516202327.5cgy2s4kppy3ahxa@Ergus> <871s0yqg2i.fsf@telefonica.net> <3210C8E9-7A74-47D6-81A0-470948E6D09C@gmail.com> <87r28xq0j1.fsf@telefonica.net> <576240a5-c92a-5cf8-898b-43f214a2b580@yandex.ru> <83imu9beyn.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Ergus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="44413"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 11 15:07:53 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hagVE-000BN2-If for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 15:07:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58608 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hagVD-0008HC-Gw for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:07:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47683) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hagUU-0008EM-UM for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:07:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hagUS-0005St-TI for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:07:06 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic301-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ([77.238.176.98]:39292) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hagUS-0005PL-A4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:07:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1560258421; bh=LbFxwMViArKKbfYr26gvPbW7u/ekpwOP/NmdWfxTZ34=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=XG0ccuhDDbaFLkMkS78eELxiiVf6HSNBxIF1pu043l7/l31lrL/XHtkXkPGGPCVMRTixn5809R4X3AgJd365LwG3hKQuWehv4d3/52LeVIHOrlFVrA7Um+8Y0d1hhXb01ToTEUKNTMJDhjSNLRHRoz2RgEdfs6st9rYG25VMUDb+jnxDShipt7vHAiJGDUXr/8OZXpYcOK5ZzFInBY27RgcpcwxgXeEgWbr9ZYpvUcThWV0zd5EM2ZAuYCMFjejr5MRGi+ZfC1WkUL1tDq6InX/qWSWZ+dYEPIisHPQ3oX307E+VSkOgjnlIMeWEJf8GLflSPaEfx4fzudyzEK2hmg== X-YMail-OSG: IXlMlXAVM1lPpY_2psE95B0lysxAnVVazwHjI5bQMPN8PAmWYYH6p45oRcB8cwG Aw6iZFiA0hdoGi4mqNdF3.DFr..CXgA0bTb0eOYVLHfJfqkyHctQs2JMQjOmmqa_whtcgoZJznnW GbWRxKiprg20AMGLaKJjUlTGmxU4OHRb4AFIsatSiAQyKsURSdhYIQHOT9r9pFUZW2VkIfgV9gNx .VoZBUaT2CGdouwF4KVj7nuPgq1HfFXEzOsVDqyJvDiQHmDgRSnVixeiRwUE8tgwsVJ1ZWw6FnM_ i0PEc3O6shPuJRbaM8tt_XDlcyzEV29aoTGabHtYpvBk5bHxI2YfJYApHYq112wiwHl39hA3wecV VIXjygynegRBKacJIG7xmW6tOzKCUAjFbDfB_aL2WzJV38x9INLIy9wEM9B_YFtmFHQCQce5pax_ zv3xjnpzgqVhgEF2cUeQxuAV2kLdaemVubiN.NPWkJJ.l1rgIktBbfzqP7DqzmHkbylfRznB6BKU oe39zWqgZi8W0SqiJSaPPPS.Pgjh01a3AQkZJSUojiOY_8PuBesCEr786ecrAeuVWVnkx3.OwqW5 ZaxRcUcRKVZkaTqbf8iVzSeBM6tYJV_Ijxvsr2fRned_WrQVkfIvbL0wxQ4fjnzhj8cghoDNh65y Z119hNIMfFhHhQu2rgXjSDs.2GaSwrTgUsSlqSisHCj9mFQiV5aeFVXRPemJUfQ.KrEKoY1nrtV5 JEa.FW5QxKWZxH4ob_rk7NsvU7UzoAxy74qKL5MXLtp9qkU5FEz6UlLYUk36aL0MiZKM6.bwOoaA nqe114ncTcsoAYjhZJBOrCghhL5NMy5Mql6A6hFA4k Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:07:01 +0000 Original-Received: from 84.88.50.33 (EHLO Ergus) ([84.88.50.33]) by smtp406.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 4d76ebaf7e627374fa30c7a66e768d3b; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:06:56 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 77.238.176.98 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120901 Archived-At: Hi Stefan: I agree with you about the prefix. After some suggestions in private (from this same thread) I have been using the composable package [1] and it works like a charm. I didn't use it before because I didn't know about it (it is in melpa). But it really improves the emacs editing experience a lot without affecting the default behavior. It has the best of modal editing (the consistency) but without the annoying modes. There are some missing details, and things that can be improved, but I see a lot of potential there. Probably this package (or a similar design/reimplementation) may finish with the arguments about vim's modal editing vs emacs memorize command and inconsistencies. Because it provides the best of both worlds. It is compatible with transient and delete-selection modes. The same applies to some commands and functions that will be not needed anymore (or needed to remember) as explained in the project's Readme. [1] https://github.com/paldepind/composable.el On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 02:35:17PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> Vim is consistent. >> So is Emacs. > >In terms of key-bindings, Emacs's scheme is not as regular as VI. > >While we can argue that the various VI emulators are just trying to >provide for those users who like VI, the number of other "alternative >set of keybindings" (god-mode and several others) out there shows that >there's a need for something else. > >I think one of the main differences (besides the fact that it's modal, >obviously) is that VI has prefix commands like `d` which Emacs lacks. >That helps make things regular/orthogonal. > >`other-frame-window` is one package that tries to add such a prefix >command (actually a pair of such) to Emacs and it's not trivial to >implement. It'd be good to extend Emacs to provide better support >for that. > > > Stefan > >