From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 22:28:31 +0200 Message-ID: <20190608202831.GA17290@tuxteam.de> References: <83ef45rdij.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhmto6fa.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190607163017.GA32029@tuxteam.de> <96B116FC-8007-4C42-9AE6-585530D0C76E@comcast.net> <87muisor2h.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190608084404.GB28228@tuxteam.de> <87h890ns41.fsf@telefonica.net> <83pnnonr15.fsf@gnu.org> <20190608135853.GA4323@tuxteam.de> <87d0jnooh4.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="238236"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 08 22:29:09 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hZhxd-000zsg-O2 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 22:29:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60380 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZhxc-0007UK-CL for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 16:29:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51588) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZhxI-0007TP-Fp for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 16:28:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZhx9-0003ut-6V for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 16:28:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:37786) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZhx8-0003qp-Mm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 16:28:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=7R1iRtz7OGTd60ILB6bH3E9e0VeD/Kv4Vt3e/Ddgbis=; b=UBmZlPbmWfpMBVYkutwWmpU5plaxL5BARQmI7mWM8JrXWxai1xnGnwWcDqQCpZIMUQk3YES5MD9NkHzI7wFArXrqPXKqXC79drycbUfvBpgEEqzzxx91kdTlBoN6wMbJcnqIhmNCOrISt3+mNecfWQfzHuFH1FB3yLVQ2HNl+6OsiDqVrg55uiNvA6O5qV5YwrW5+LRdRce/T5gBzrR8ibnWHXltUpV6URHnMOcgIwdHfOYaRgn1vkRMFxxqYHW9h9aWPlU+PnvbxqUVOWRlG3ejmzyoYaChDATdQQ3gw/jQfmpY2qZ/PTJRvcdohPKKPIIPeXsyFEQfZWPY3+LDhw==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hZhx1-0004XQ-7r for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 22:28:31 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87d0jnooh4.fsf@telefonica.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 5.199.139.25 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120846 Archived-At: --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 08, 2019 at 09:40:07PM +0200, =C3=93scar Fuentes wrote: > writes: >=20 > > On Sat, Jun 08, 2019 at 04:30:14PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: [...] > > Well said. The only one stepping forward with some code was Stefan, > > and personally, I find it a bit discouraging >=20 > What I find discouraging is this phrase on the above quoted message: >=20 > >> ... Suffices it to say that several times during the recent years > >> when we needed to make seemingly-simple changes and fixes in that > >> code, no one had the courage to approve such changes. >=20 > I'm sure that that is not Eli's intention, but encouraging it is not. It's expected. Big software organisms are like that. Try hacking on Mozilla, or Eclipse, or... I think Emacs fares quite well compared to that, more so given its age. > > that folks just keep > > saying what "Emacs Should Do" without investing much effort into > > understanding what's there and what other users need/want. >=20 > Care to explain how the proposed change would take away from you? I think I explained that twice. Won't repeat. > > Software development is a collective effort, and it takes listening > > as well as talking, I think. >=20 > I listened as hard as I can, and still don't understand why you react > this way to this issue, when several times we explicitly said that > nothing would change on the default behavior. Sorry if I hurt you in any way. Cheers -- tom=C3=A1s --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlz8Gm8ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZV+wCdEgoTOcI8SNL8ox/DbJIqhyRi Iq4An0TMke42bCH8P/NhCabSbOR7MZSC =+Lhl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL--