From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 15:58:53 +0200 Message-ID: <20190608135853.GA4323@tuxteam.de> References: <83lfydrkde.fsf@gnu.org> <874l51q0s4.fsf@telefonica.net> <83ef45rdij.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhmto6fa.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190607163017.GA32029@tuxteam.de> <96B116FC-8007-4C42-9AE6-585530D0C76E@comcast.net> <87muisor2h.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190608084404.GB28228@tuxteam.de> <87h890ns41.fsf@telefonica.net> <83pnnonr15.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="253638"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 08 15:59:39 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hZbsg-0013lG-RV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 15:59:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58592 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZbsa-0001Vg-4i for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 09:59:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34246) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZbs4-0001VF-9I for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 09:59:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZbs1-0005DM-Tc for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 09:59:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:36964) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZbs1-0005Bh-F3 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 09:58:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=mMzDfB4ckwmwZNq4mtr8+8LdS8Mo3dBpLpa7vBGsxUk=; b=e4AHFwEG/31m8d3egAt7iHuGc5skzXC5n4U9gyuostIyyydhuJzH1jbgDZIj7aFCB6CVuDFoZ++ueNFR2NzZSgnRqF3VLNVZTTsnDeiw4DdFEbQbYDHBVyiPwPPKI9YHEJkwXY0npfFitSqxKemBYRhQI647HT3Ma5ouNkvhqOUI0q8XxmxbN5rnaJ1cbGd0Se2M2asOaOSm0lauL7mGaeXWIVEtA7F6bf7jaqroyuKGASsWwgCKI3Zwht9MVgIoMU2J9oqfQmoZ2yBQZHJkl7h6eNmgBIaNr5gn085jEpPWNhwbvhTDglaiGsPpoEWz/z74sbXZsTLH4jj2lHvHzw==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hZbrx-0001bU-Ja for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 15:58:53 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83pnnonr15.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 5.199.139.25 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120838 Archived-At: --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 08, 2019 at 04:30:14PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: =C3=93scar Fuentes > > Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2019 15:06:54 +0200 > >=20 > > Nobody is asking for a change on the default bindings, what we are > > saying it that the user should be allowed to set the binding the > > same way he does for any other binding. >=20 > If you or someone else believe they know enough about the Emacs > keyboard input processing to propose its redesign which will satisfy > the above requirement [...] > Current situation is nowhere near such expertise. Suffices it to say > that several times during the recent years when we needed to make > seemingly-simple changes and fixes in that code, no one had the > courage to approve such changes. For some of them, it later turned > out that we broke some subtle but important use cases, for others we > still have our fingers crossed. So please don't expect any > significant redesigns in that any time soon, as long as all we do is > vent steam here. We have an enormously complex piece of software on > our hands, and we have no better choice than going the "inconvenient" > ways when we want to rebind an unusual key. Well said. The only one stepping forward with some code was Stefan, and personally, I find it a bit discouraging that folks just keep saying what "Emacs Should Do" without investing much effort into understanding what's there and what other users need/want. Software development is a collective effort, and it takes listening as well as talking, I think. Cheers -- tom=C3=A1s --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlz7vx0ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kblpwCfXqUVzreMVnvj7Zrp//PdnRL+ b54An3jyI6cVxX9S7A4d/HWM05fTUmqU =qClY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/--