From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bob Proulx Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Google Gmail mailing list bounces Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 17:32:30 -0600 Message-ID: <20190523172148538275561@bob.proulx.com> References: <83imxegskr.fsf@gnu.org> <20190220152455054511191@bob.proulx.com> <835ztdgr10.fsf@gnu.org> <20190221170259478078146@bob.proulx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="x+6KMIRAuhnl3hBn" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="132858"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 24 01:32:53 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxCe-000YOP-QB for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 24 May 2019 01:32:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44592 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxCd-0004WH-4r for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 23 May 2019 19:32:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37714) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxCP-0004W9-DQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 May 2019 19:32:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxCO-0002qQ-8u for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 May 2019 19:32:37 -0400 Original-Received: from havoc.proulx.com ([96.88.95.61]:48304) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hTxCN-0002ng-Ul for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 May 2019 19:32:36 -0400 Original-Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD7E127 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 17:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7241F21134 for ; Thu, 23 May 2019 17:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5DA202DC7D; Thu, 23 May 2019 17:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 96.88.95.61 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120595 Archived-At: --x+6KMIRAuhnl3hBn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Noam Postavsky wrote: > It seems that Google doesn't like something about Emanuel's emails, so > it rejects them as spam (I notice that I sometimes do get messages > from Emanuel, but they always land in the spam folder). Then > help-gnu-emacs sees all the rejected messages and decides that the > subscribed address is no good, and disables the subscription. That is exactly correct. The problem is sending domains that are setting a strict DMARC policy. And receiving sites are also setting a strict DMARC policy. https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC discusses the woeful situation. The current wisdom has appeared that mailing lists must perform what the Mailman configuration calls a Munge From policy action. Here is what Mailman says about it. dmarc_moderation_action (privacy): Action to take when anyone posts to the list from a domain with a DMARC Reject/Quarantine Policy. Munge From -- applies the from_is_list Munge From transformation to these messages. Wrap Message -- applies the from_is_list Wrap Message transformation to these messages. Reject -- this automatically rejects the message by sending a bounce notice to the post's author. The text of the bounce notice can be configured by you. Discard -- this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the post's author. I have been avoiding it due to the invasive changes but just can't postpone it any longer. A few minutes ago I flipped this setting for help-gnu-emacs to "Munge From". The result is that all mail from the mailing list where the sender has a strict DMARC policy will be mangled to come from the mailing list address instead of the original sender address. This can be seen from Emanuel's latest emails where it uses the mailing list for the mail address and replaces the name field with the name followed by "via help-gnu-emacs". Mailman then adds a Reply-To header back to the original sender. For this mailing list that is new. I also think undesirable. I feel certain it will have the effect of many people posting getting a direct reply back to them instead of back to the mailing list. But that is the Mailman setting and a consequence of the strict DMARC policies of the sender. Hopefully this will allow all of those people using email service providers that have enabled strict DMARC policies to continue to make use of the mailing list. 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