From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow? Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 10:55:26 +0200 Message-ID: <20190517085526.GC9018@tuxteam.de> References: <20190514235412.kncazq45szlum2gr@Ergus> <83v9yb92c7.fsf@gnu.org> <878sv7sp3r.fsf@telefonica.net> <83r28z8zl9.fsf@gnu.org> <20190515210924.sijzy6mnpgzkt4gm@Ergus> <83ftpecwu1.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516161408.4dov3dwk5h4yoizn@Ergus> <838sv6cmwt.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516202327.5cgy2s4kppy3ahxa@Ergus> <871s0yqg2i.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="69124"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?w5NzY2Fy?= Fuentes Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 17 10:56:25 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRYfA-000Hqy-Bq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 10:56:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44762 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRYf9-0008VC-5S for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 04:56:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33184) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRYeQ-0008Ek-4S for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 04:55:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRYeN-0005QB-SJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 04:55:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:54917) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRYeN-0005PW-Co for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 04:55:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:Date; bh=4emIQEfPT0YoGFh3ltn6AdST1YwsjxkfzODozNfTi98=; b=KgXfjyMMnolsIddGNItSsy0xcH3gRwLg1exTNOc/s6xv20Mm2cKZYZLHYYXtjLsvIsbkZ2OKjRo1b0td0XdYn4yxYwV2X+2zJkZ44PdDS1UyABn2KiXOzSRrAd6OaZw/WpNXHbrk985Xc7tIpKvBZIO2f415NEE2vOSxrYbPT2mrMluMGH/VwDjB0brfihyhr+IF5znjK5iKRvC5aQzn1K0uu/UyfMolFqoa8azWA78UxvRGEVDRF9JBMzKFpGGrzwu15iIKDVeerjsuFJl1bOUXdMk+HgYxupfCpacJXKCkb5RANGfzcAKjXRj53I/JwO6Dkqo1br8ppE5JztI0xA==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hRYeE-0002ul-HW; Fri, 17 May 2019 10:55:26 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <871s0yqg2i.fsf@telefonica.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 5.199.139.25 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120461 Archived-At: --Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 10:50:45PM +0200, =C3=93scar Fuentes wrote: > Can't resist on commenting two points: >=20 > Ergus writes: >=20 > > 3) The development is not focused in the first thing that a user needs > > when she opens emacs: provide the most comfortable and useful TEXT > > EDITOR. >=20 > For many people this is Notepad. +1 :-) > > If emacs as TEXT EDITOR does not convince them (just the first try, > > without config, without reading the manual/tutorial/documentation), then > > they will not even try any other functionality. >=20 > Indeed, Emacs has a non-negligible learning curve. Other editors do a > lot out of the box in a familiar way [...] Yes. I've been in this software business for 30+ years, and with the arrival of "commodity computing", I've observed a strong anti-pattern: designs tend to cater to the buyer and not to the user. I'll explain: If you decide which product to "buy", you haven't the time/resources to become proficient with that product: you decide on first impressions. But once you use that product for years, you'll "need" other features, which perhaps don't stick out at first sight. There are two mechanisms pushing that anti-pattern forward: 1. In bigger corporations those taking the decision which software to "buy" (usually in the monetary sense) won't be those paid (and thus more or less blackmailed) to use it. Management goes "oh, shiny" and workers go "oh, no!". 2. In general, when you personally "buy" a piece of software (in the monetary, or in the general sense), you often have no idea on what you need, so you go "oh shiny" again, and sink considerable effort into fine-tuning your interface to that software. Re-tuning is so expensive that you better not think of it (as a long-time vi user, I mostly moved to Emacs about ten years ago: it /was/ expensive. Cheers [1] "buy" in a very general sense: it might cost money or not, but it'll cost learning, dedication and commitment. -- t --Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlzedv4ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYXAwCfcLxs2Pl1cXnN/Gbm6vWl1vu/ A0AAn0MGlnCGxYnkCdF08JnTIj3ketq8 =mid6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN--