From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why is Elisp slow? Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 16:41:38 +0200 Message-ID: <20190507144138.pugj7gqhxaqwjeqf@Ergus> References: <84F2860D-523D-4F30-BD52-D6A915416167@icloud.com> <20190507104945.gfdrftaeztrzbkt6@Ergus> <44A389B2-9D9D-4C1F-B9E3-9859C77DAF70@icloud.com> <798C9A13-7A2F-4C43-A5D9-6FDE00D647FC@icloud.com> <20190507131442.7hnyuqpknzldorur@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="216446"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 07 16:42:08 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hO1IF-000uEG-VG for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 16:42:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47899 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hO1IF-0005j6-0u for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 10:42:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49553) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hO1Hw-0005hz-TJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 10:41:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hO1Hw-0005Qs-09 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 10:41:48 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic313-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ([77.238.179.187]:36675) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hO1Hv-0005NU-C2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2019 10:41:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1557240104; bh=ySkygDKokA7JU3y2nhIFdnKDi0PlM+rikH+SM/raesI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=fKtAI75XbrUmkiEQw+1HdWWuwl89Kkf6Xz4FeXh8KmLsRUd6J1IXmix+pY7fhd0XPobwXenbfnOmGr0zMI29fmPy3OVApKe83PKbLSbbqgWP2XMcbgo2t8HM/b7Z+u+jmvF4Q6oPAPAjP0IfCd5/4WLMY2oi3BtrtveGzXesFw7oLR/+tqh4wH+l1eAH5YHvnkrH/244R/2JaFRuYYNnbNqBdVA5PRGR+1gUaaZcHycX94I9fdGvgG7vkDWjgt8YXuUiPltWpXRONYwcH8na9bDkDKHyfmHaTgOzZXmunNn8g78SGGymGhNqLkUZx7rlyo3aQnWWqtmKkYOtas/aRA== X-YMail-OSG: Qb7hmhcVM1nXU44ssrcSHZkZYZrFgU1s2CgKIlr0CkEkX0m.UttZFpiEIZeKXdf nRQDz7Mxv6io9ckwfoV2vuZ_RuAp5PXcxhrvyk6ETV2tLCiicEXUuBQjeML.EtJLNWA5UgKxN_zP kbZWAImwRqum_OaILuUgzV8283nIXdhuiimDaGNJGKbIxpu0uhLkLJFiHw0Uf1W_irbY9fpVvepk 7w7lhR1JN8sRql_we1WFs9yVZ7p9a5x1x8CYh1.pIQW52rhZkl7HXMWqu0wGH7CD.HpF3tTtEpdQ 6CH2LLZf.QHDNcHbUKZt3efQ4k985lg_KC6P.20xLVH8A.ZRp_ae7ObEmb9dJo8xZz0dNodwAzvZ QvCal_242IMVof3amM0rMg.KTxy0T_X6fH7vUfxzzVFza3bMesNSdl84PEfREtU5R3p6L.KcUflG hAUOQxQgsoItN7VRkBB5yNVWZiQEmFMa5xYtsOBtb09Byi16ZLWJClYQCK358AXBBYLpDS6viz6B GqJDBh7ERnr8x5TRsN6hd6Wkc.snoSn30XDBoLq4LYfs1WlDcDzjfvWhrb4a0pygbf9t1DRAV9Fp 963rBeRUowAufWddIK3JhDgG7Zn3nPt6jB35vobjLvIwEMobl2wiLnURzEhzyfXYuBZvc6IPu.LW sK.8zOijGmt9VAdZMvXpYpCPM__K41SC6UTtZ.Ugyeq79uXm9O7Hw5ISivSkpobwixdSVzPoQYDk qT.8ulnqxivDK48n24UIMz2DnDUtX2waJ6pYwS6pgLDGKLwAQa3THyl7LBnXT4MbSllbbtQqzWWc fKEBUu0XLB.ioCEvFbNX2RMvYqz3Vdv.g8.wNjO.02 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 7 May 2019 14:41:44 +0000 Original-Received: from 2.152.205.184.dyn.user.ono.com (EHLO Ergus) ([2.152.205.184]) by smtp404.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID bc02c4e834047637c2cfd797b52729e9; Tue, 07 May 2019 14:41:43 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 77.238.179.187 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120260 Archived-At: Personally I think is a bad decision go for ECL. It is unmaintained and performance is not as good that worth the effort. It will be pretty much the same than going for GCL. SBCL is very actively maintained and is free and open source why couldn't we invest some time doing a plugin for our specific use case?? If we ask the maintainers we could even get some help from them?? Is it more complex than maintain our interpreter and libraries as we are doing?? Maybe they have some undocumented functionalities we could take advantage of. If they have FFI they should have some infrastructure already there, but hidden for normal users (as python does with CTypes and the python C API). Actually the bigger problem I see are the buffer local variables and similar Emacs specific functionalities. (Maybe because I understand better C than Lisp) On Tue, May 07, 2019 at 10:22:39AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> embed ECL (Embeddable Common Lisp), which >> * is significantly slower than SBCL, about 2~3x slower? but is still >> much faster than Elisp. > >Last time this discussion came up, ECL seemed like the most promising >option indeed, but the performance was not that impressive compared to >Emacs. Maybe the situation has changed? >Also in terms of maintenance, it's minimal, so it wouldn't help very >much on the side of manpower. > > > Stefan > >