From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [RFE] Migration to gitlab Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 12:03:44 +0100 Message-ID: <20190319110344.weuvfemmsa2xfuxt@Ergus> References: <1552789070.5272.1@yandex.ru> <1552791707.5272.2@yandex.ru> <1552793646.5272.3@yandex.ru> <1552821396.21432.0@yandex.ru> <83imwhwf4x.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="70704"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , theophilusx@gmail.com, Emacs developers , Konstantin Kharlamov , Dmitry Gutov To: Philippe Vaucher Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 19 12:07:01 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h6CaB-000IFq-BG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 12:06:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55286 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h6CaA-0000Oo-7h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 07:06:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51145) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h6CX9-0007YG-R4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 07:03:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h6CX8-0000gF-Il for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 07:03:51 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic302-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ([87.248.110.83]:40531) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h6CX7-0000bT-JK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 07:03:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1552993427; bh=THOWYskjnYdo9Fcxz7YUaszlGWzYWkDFLHUtWYxRYvg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=Pf1WhF9kznI78GSt8ZccUU9vNcuPt2ByKAg56uWW/L+6yA4ug1onuU+QkAzmu5Ufla4QddEzQqlWAZKZX3smnNaOUOucmMuG0aCt9j3jlQPiLpJk2u/T9Ry+iG/27lJZUx1g0g3f/DNOEcfsAlRJQkrwaeeeg/vMq3OqDDXx6/T80rALpvQI15hZWuLIgc7Jj3V1cripARdHtcYi+riHxE+a4COE4NKqerkpOOH4LNMPygP9mAi+vgqKmeB9RcZXbuU/4Zqn6Qs7ZsmC5UnP97TAvl0sNQ5QCKnXq1goiqjfcuW/msWpyJlPmoZFlIlprW3HqUwCX8EBaWSwYEzq5Q== X-YMail-OSG: ZQzISnQVM1mSOw1NPpwdLsYWp2z4iaK70V461uGFQoxbABOQTbr9B0Q5MljB2Zp sN1cfdGmUJQW0zrICz_YwO854Cg8.bJ_lqp2ba.Me1ifMlxvydMHNv1uvGfczfe1WPICtyE1d2ZM Cm_sD9KpXlYD63LOwPld6CZfzSbHOg_Lufsxk934SDFCok_f6u_tYvIP9VhVZ_O6gqVLfiLrnZZm 2a570uWaEizKU7wTMctEC9Xdb05diaMp6dp6cFoQbmBqZ2QwD94bKUWfKQoQaXLAm.RkhATNmK9Y nJsdrBS5LYSo0nzLXZoIJ0JIFdhL5gXTNSs91oTEZXwsW68kr7kaIc38DJpX7ChfWStu0H099bQr o0pHeznfzCusHZNsBW56E2xnHzFuIWjG2GTjW.fePVLQuPAxXySXO27ZGCUor9yAZ7Nmdbym7xtR Tj._TmTX9gfDalwzGU6OUgwGTB.z9SLUCMIdeJlzem8Um_f.q3jUS8sBLHRn_Zlb45XDTcH8isdX 7ng1XUeTUKQ4q6bwcX5qFtFIcbVc4cY6.w.LS9dPY.6SSTpOLKODQbohd8t4InWHYLhkB7n3qsDv gXb.Y6F4mE8ZyXKmLy6ZkZWjojiEtzz3TkJKwNTUR0NLMWqQJL0cIzzi8_omk0xKziMRLQPFK3Ku jMn1XrCidOCzfi5Udhy.Nr50ZG8G_IQ_l8HHA362kRRPAG7AOU.T2vmw61xu3YjsrKl6Icorqu4R FeSN9VzFsZ4kfJ05sbwQxpaj8YR62Sfuos6Nhynf0aEoJRxKju9rVT6NrhRRgBe04Q4kkyo9d27q VUAuKTZhKYF3bQ3Bc1JwPAfspyUynoVphRsw40FePS Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:03:47 +0000 Original-Received: from 84.88.50.33 (EHLO Ergus) ([84.88.50.33]) by smtp410.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 1d5ffb71581e016648cef843bd973eaa; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:03:46 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 87.248.110.83 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:234363 Archived-At: On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 08:27:10AM +0100, Philippe Vaucher wrote: >> >> > Sending patches via email is only one requirement. There are other >> > requirements peculiar to Emacs, which will not go away if we switch to >> > another patch submitting system. Some of these requirements, each and >> > every one of them flagged at some point as an obstacle for newcomers: >> > >> > . code submissions should include documentation >> > . commit log messages should be formatted in a certain way >> > . bug numbers should be referenced in log messages >> > . US English conventions in writing comments and documentation >> > (spelling, two spaces between sentences, etc.) >> > . we require copyright assignments for accepting changesets larger >> > than about 15 original source lines >> > . we have peculiar rules regarding the branch were certain changes >> > should be pushed (affects the branch against which contributors >> > should prepare patches) >> > . very elaborate coding and documenting conventions (their >> > description takes around 900 lines in the ELisp manual) >> >> At least some of these checks could be automated on a CI. And the author >> of a random PR would get an overview of its compliance automatically. >> > >Also when someone creates a PR (or Issue), there can be template text (with >checkboxes, etc) stating these points, so the author has a direct reminder >to improve the quality of his PR or Issue before he sends it. > >And if he does not check all the checboxes and submit anyway, then the >maintainer's job is easier because he already knows the missing parts. > >I believe this whole discussion is basically this: the ones who are used to >a gitlab workflow see the obvious benefits, and the ones who only use the >email workflow don't see what's so great about it because they always find >a manual/configuration-heavy way to achieve the same. > >I think the manual/configuration-heavy way is not very smooth and makes >_you_ work instead of the tools, when this effort could be better spent >improving Emacs. > >Kind regards, >Philippe I agree with Philippe and Konstantin. The gitlab interface and workflow is more attractive for new developers that use to work with gitlab/bitbuclet/github everyday. On the other hand it will make the process to report bugs in emacs (from the client side) much easier and easier to follow. I am refering here to the gitlab installer package. I already talked to this some months ago. The workflow for pull requests, interaction between users and feature requests is very sparse and unfamiliar for young users and developers. With some minimal corrections the gitlab program could provide backward compatibility with the mailing list and present the discussions in the interface as issues OR sent the issues reported in the interface to the mailing list. So both workflows can be made compatible. This is something that we could ask to the gitlab developers to implement (if not already implemented) for our use case and they will be very pleased to help. (Normally they are) The alternative is to improve and implement all these things in the current savannah web interface (or organize it better), but it is like reinventing the wheel and will require some manpower not available. The gitlab team could be very interested in providing support to emacs and other gnu programs because that's a good reputation for the package and will strengthen them in the competition with github/MS to host free software. So it is mutual benefit, even if we use only the installer and not their servers. My last point is from the normal (not developer) user point of view in 2019. When a normal user finds an issue/bug/feature request it finds that there is not web interface for that, so he can report the issue with emacs, but many people don't configure their mail in emacs, they use thunderbird or web interfaces for that.