From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Bob Proulx Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Using R-mail in Emacs Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 17:26:10 -0600 Message-ID: <20180925170550763544528@bob.proulx.com> References: <86worocffa.fsf@zoho.com> <86o9czder0.fsf@zoho.com> <86in36df2x.fsf@zoho.com> <86efdud83a.fsf@zoho.com> <86a7oicu8u.fsf@zoho.com> <20180920180910704706461@bob.proulx.com> <87efdny97i.fsf@bobnewell.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537917881 29215 195.159.176.226 (25 Sep 2018 23:24:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 23:24:41 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 26 01:24:37 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g4wh3-0007VS-6u for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 01:24:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55668 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g4wj9-0000o1-JF for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 19:26:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45552) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g4wie-0000nk-Mu for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 19:26:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g4wib-0008HZ-JJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 19:26:16 -0400 Original-Received: from havoc.proulx.com ([96.88.95.61]:51727) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g4wib-0008H7-DB for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 19:26:13 -0400 Original-Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00457234E for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 17:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC22217DF for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 17:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B00392DC74; Tue, 25 Sep 2018 17:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87efdny97i.fsf@bobnewell.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 96.88.95.61 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:118013 Archived-At: Bob Newell wrote: > Bob Proulx writes: > > ... But I find doing even simple things quite difficult to > > impossible. I would never recommend gnus for email. > > I can understand the pain. When I attempted the switch from viewmail > (vm) to gnus, it was ... what am I doing to myself? But ... > > Gnus takes a lot of patience, really a lot. It starts to pay off, > though. When I integrated BBDB that was a huge leap forward, and many > things became possible that were difficult with other clients. Adding BBDB would be a significant increase in functionality. I can see where in combination that it would be very powerful. > I would say, though, that it took me months to get to that stage, > and years to get to where I am now, where gnus is part of my regular > workflow and is virtually indispensible. I would love to see you write a tutorial article on how you set up and more importantly how you use gnus and bbdb in your environment. That would be really useful! :-) > I think a lot of people just don't want to go to that much trouble (or > are not fanatical enough[1], take your pick), and I completely get that, > when something like Gmail's web client is really easy to use and is > quickly learned. Yes. The seductively easy interface is like the dark side of the force. If it pulls you in then there is no recovery. The gates of hell are open night and day. Smooth the descent and easy the way. But to come back, to cheerful skies, in this the task and mighty labor lies. --Virgil, Aeneid, iv. 128. (Dryden, Trans.) > You mentioned mutt--- that certainly works quite well (I use it once in > a while when in a rush and not wanting to start up Emacs) although it > just doesn't have the flexibility and sheer power of Gnus (but you never > said it did). I understand your view that gnus+bbdb+additionals is very powerful. I would love to get to that point. But on the other side of things mutt is also extremely powerful and very fast. Mutt is by far the fastest mail client I have ever used. And also the most powerful. Especially the search capability. In mutt I will often look for something. I remember that I was in the conversation. I limit the view to only threads that I participated. Then I will remember a unique word or tag or concept that was in there somewhere and search for it. Often in conjuction with a header or some other criteria. Or other combinations. I almost always find what I am looking for in the first search and the response is always almost immediate. Very fast. Very powerful. It seems to me that you and I could each give a glowing advocacy for each of our respective tools and the process would sound about the same. But in each case we would have a different tool named. :-) > Gnus plays to a niche audience of devotees. As someone further up in > this now long thread pointed out, there isn't much it can't do (though > "do it easily" was definitely not claimed). At some point I will get a little bit of time and get back into reading newsgroups. Using gnus. It has been just long enough that I will need to review the keybindings again. And at that time there will be basic actions that I think would make perfect sense but will be difficult to do. I'll write up my experience with it and kindly ask you to review it and teach me the error of my ways. The problem is almost certainly one of documentation. If I could figure it out without looking at the source code but only from reading documentation then I would be happier using it and could possibly recommend it. It is possible that simply with improvements to the gnus info and the emacs wiki pages that all could be resolved. :-) Bob