From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Bingo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:45:22 +0530 Message-ID: <20180910104522.7e5cdf8a@gmail.com> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536556876 2914 195.159.176.226 (10 Sep 2018 05:21:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 05:21:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, Joost Kremers , Noam Postavsky , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 10 07:21:11 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fzEdL-0000ex-9A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 07:21:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49802 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzEfR-0001t0-PA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 01:23:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45639) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzEf2-0000AA-AL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 01:23:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzEWu-0005oz-KF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 01:14:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x441.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::441]:35956) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzEWq-0005jV-Ue; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 01:14:29 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x441.google.com with SMTP id b11-v6so9846680pfo.3; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 22:14:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qysdBuG0xybQHyCmy6P0bNxaretLDL7VvcONp22XkJs=; b=rrbNXD1Xu36LwqQK7tUXN2rPU0lvNuMZWGCpAoTnqeSLvSoxrTuAOIgq9FkZAqUHk4 gLEVoSLlQyg5MaKnRsqnhVr75A6MBkJU/4c7EzF6IqPab/ch0cQThstN+pkdDsdefzIQ FHFeSG6pT7Kk679OQyU8tgtvgpnfdUnomi/aR7DvgYvV/Mz5gtbAQ3P6Myw6uwCH4HGk cpT9pn3kiWB395ecdfRpyL0ylHSOrcUv4I23rhX6wUN8GwfquttLFC0wDuyZ1MIbgE9y R9aZRw7cXGEJ5g6mV3qimRgFKT5ql63SSBuFXvbaSP58HCqU8QEyVk/J8qXrDTEXNHl6 vJLA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qysdBuG0xybQHyCmy6P0bNxaretLDL7VvcONp22XkJs=; b=s/2T7ya6n6lJ5y3518yTRuB60NH6mQtf5TfJGPnBzud73XrzurSCY/xRxp6tqp/6hO Jng1Ugp40BLoOI/tBHuS14B9Urpxm8sqcOWm6XBIn4FqWwsuL80WD5eNcdrq22h9kkGs 29rOfqFOLw6w26TTIeRt6H0CUkWJpsxfiQwzNsn6iD/Dab4X7AoCgwQdvLpUPuANxukl BPe7+vYove4tk3vdwKprAZJ3GUg3fiOmoX+h3edWtohdqJncraCxEyylbFvzrVctL/M0 XGYaYLabm28LIY09900y+eVVFmO2lqDrZ7IGAtT5stfbcZyXysZ6SDPqT1oEQTih/uFc 0SPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51CDbcGRA6WDEgfkLaHcQ5W8AGX24KqlGCVVbFYVl3bnmunrUz4d fr5tPWdqOmHIrDehuX8SvQQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0Vdb6dRxNTDfdcdG4aEncSSDi11/kG7mmKoW6MIRLg+RBguEvPd8tz84B9Y2KNRw2cqUo4SUl1w== X-Received: by 2002:a63:5ec1:: with SMTP id s184-v6mr20810362pgb.26.1536556467718; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 22:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([122.171.94.111]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6-v6sm24298503pfr.115.2018.09.09.22.14.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 09 Sep 2018 22:14:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::441 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229588 Archived-At: On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 15:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Drew Adams wrote: > So again, what's the advantage to it being off? (It's not a > rhetorical question.) Is there really some useful "option" > that its being off offers? Does that give you additional > choice or control? > Hi Drew, You might be comfortable with Emacs undo. What is your opinion on new users' comfort level with it ? The advantage with d-s-m being off is it leads to less accidental deletions, hence less need to undo. I have 8000 hours of Emacs under my belt and I can manage only evil-mode's simplified undo/redo in spite of its weakness. Emacs should not half-ass the embracing of new users. Either go the full hog - CUA, C-z undo, C-y redo (real redo), C-s save, C-a select all, shift-selection-mode, right-click context menu. Only then there is any hope for the non-manual-readers. If only d-s-m is enabled, and there is an accidental selected text deletion - user would try C-z : which would weirdly vanish their window. After frantically finding the window back, they would try C-y for redo to correct anything this C-z might have done. C-y would paste their accidentally killed selected text at a place where their cursor found itself while they were confused. thanks