all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
	eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org,
	wyuenho@gmail.com
Subject: Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2018 08:18:33 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180707081833.37561702@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1fbZqU-00060y-Jp@fencepost.gnu.org>

On Fri, 06 Jul 2018 19:08:58 -0400 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
wrote:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please
> consider    ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against
> all enemies,     ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to
> follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> 
>   > I think we should assume people generally know whether thugs
>   > with torture chambers might be after them.  
> 
> I agree, provided we encourage them to ask themselves the question.

There is ample evidence that people in such situations rarely if ever
understand what the right thing to do is.

There's also another issue we've discovered: at one time, people
believed having software provide "levels" of security made sense,but
we now understand based on bitter experience that everyone, whether
their greatest threat is unimportant or whether their greatest threat
is a nation state, uses the same software and same default settings
99% of the time, so software needs to be built with the needs of
people under threat in mind.

And let me repeat, there's excellent field evidence that
people under threat generally have no technical expertise to make
serious security decisions, and that includes people with programming
backgrounds.

The other thing is, in spite of the constant claims, running with the
level of security provided by Firefox or Chrome or Safari isn't the
least bit inconvenient, so there's no obvious reason not to do at
least _that_. It's not like there's any actual tradeoff involved.

Perry
-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry@piermont.com



  reply	other threads:[~2018-07-07 12:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 221+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-06-22 22:00 A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-22 22:43 ` Paul Eggert
2018-06-22 23:21   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-22 23:33     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23  1:35       ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-23 10:23         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 10:34           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 10:48           ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-23 11:32             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 11:55               ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-23 12:05                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 12:13                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 12:15                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 12:26                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07  9:57                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 14:01                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 14:53                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 15:06                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 15:23                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 12:45                   ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-24 12:53                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-05 13:33           ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 13:49             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 15:29               ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 18:55                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 19:26                   ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-05 19:35                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 20:01                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 17:03                       ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-06 17:36                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 18:15                           ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-07  7:04                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 10:30                               ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 11:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 20:46                     ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 20:45                   ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-06  6:29                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 23:08                       ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-07 12:18                         ` Perry E. Metzger [this message]
2018-07-07 13:19                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 13:46                             ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-07 14:17                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 15:25                                 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-07 16:08                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 23:46                                   ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-08  0:25                                     ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-08  2:44                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 22:55                                       ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-07 14:32                               ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 15:15                                 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-07 15:39                                   ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 18:16                                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-07 23:03                                       ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 15:57                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 23:45                           ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-05 13:50             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-05 15:30               ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 15:36                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-05 16:05                   ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 22:44             ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-06  6:01               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23  0:00     ` Paul Eggert
2018-06-23  0:10       ` Stefan Monnier
2018-06-23  9:57         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23  2:17   ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-23  6:40     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 10:21       ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-23 11:26         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 22:28       ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-24 14:23         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-24 14:34           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 14:48             ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-24 15:30               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-24 16:57                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 17:10                   ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-24 17:39                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 18:29                       ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-24 18:51                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-24 21:30                         ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25  1:25                           ` Van L
2018-06-25  2:28                             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25  2:38                               ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 17:16                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 17:25                             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 18:06                             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-24 20:58             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 21:07               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 22:47                 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25  0:04                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-25  0:33                     ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-25  0:36                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 21:28               ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-24 21:57                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-25 16:06               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 16:29                 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 16:58                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-25 17:08                     ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 17:18                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-30 17:40                         ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-30 18:04                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 17:09                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 17:17                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 16:55                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-25 17:06                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 17:20                   ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 17:33                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-05 15:52                       ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 15:58                         ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-05 16:36                           ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 16:51                             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-05 18:25                               ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 18:32                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 18:43                         ` Noam Postavsky
2018-07-05 20:31                           ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-08 11:43                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 14:48                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06  9:01                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 15:33       ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 18:58         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06  8:36           ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-06  8:49             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06  9:35               ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-06 12:32                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 12:52                   ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-06 13:31                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06  9:45               ` Stephen Berman
2018-07-06 12:41                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 13:50                   ` Stephen Berman
2018-07-07  7:15                     ` martin rudalics
2018-07-07 12:22                       ` Stephen Berman
2018-07-07 13:22                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 13:47                           ` Stephen Berman
2018-07-08  8:11                         ` martin rudalics
2018-07-05 15:10     ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-06-23  6:45   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 10:34     ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-05 15:58     ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 19:20       ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-05 20:46         ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 22:44       ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-06  6:42         ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-06  8:16           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06  9:28             ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-06 13:18               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 18:06               ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-06 18:48                 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-07  7:02                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07  9:36                 ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-07  9:59                   ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 10:01                     ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 21:44                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2018-07-07 21:59                       ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-07 22:11                         ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 23:09                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2018-07-10 18:20                             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-10 18:36                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-10 18:40                                 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-10 18:58                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-13 20:50                                     ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-14  6:37                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-14 17:18                                         ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-14 18:25                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 22:13                       ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 13:09                     ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-09 13:33                       ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 13:43                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-09 13:49                           ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 17:15                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 17:24                             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-10  0:06                               ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-10  0:03                           ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-10  0:02                         ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-06 13:03             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-06 14:06               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 21:24                 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07  7:55                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 14:06           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 14:54             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 15:13               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 16:56                 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 17:06                   ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-08 17:25                     ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 17:53                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 18:54                         ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 19:30                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 19:32                             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 22:56                     ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-08 17:47                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 18:10                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 18:12                       ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 18:26                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 18:39                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 18:53                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 19:22                               ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 16:57                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 17:17                                   ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 17:36                                   ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 17:38                                     ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 18:04                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 18:10                                         ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 18:33                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 18:47                                             ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-10 16:10                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 19:28                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 19:31                                 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 17:04                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 17:02                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 17:09                                   ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 15:29                               ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 16:35                                 ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-08 18:31                     ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 18:42                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 19:28                         ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 17:53                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 19:16                     ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 14:55             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 14:58               ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 15:18                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 15:16               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-06 16:53         ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-06 23:11           ` Richard Stallman

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20180707081833.37561702@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com \
    --to=perry@piermont.com \
    --cc=eggert@cs.ucla.edu \
    --cc=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=larsi@gnus.org \
    --cc=rms@gnu.org \
    --cc=wyuenho@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.